Fitting hive to ideal ESP1 30

[ericmark]

If I had a modulating boiler able to use OpenTherm I would not even consider Hive, I don't I have an oil on/off boiler so Hive for me is a consideration, however a Hive TRV head is similar price to a Wiser TRV head, and the big expense is the TRV heads as you have, or at least I have so many, so why spoil the ship for a halfpence of tar?

I would hope where we see an OpenTherm enabled boiler with on/off control it is because the boiler has been changed without updating the controls, so I would expect to find a wiring centre which is a remnant left behind when new boiler fitted. Have a look where likely there was originally an airing cupboard.

One could put Hive where the programmer is, and turn old thermostat to max, or replace old thermostat with a blanking plate and link the controls there, however the question is where will the Hive go? Hive is designed to receive a "demand for heat" from the TRV's as long as where it is located is not over 22ºC, so located in the hall likely fine, as we would not normally have a hall that hot, but in the living room can be counter productive as if living room hits 22ºC then it will stop heating other rooms.

As to geofencing and lesser methods of remote control, I have found the recovery time for my heating is too slow, with simple times I can set a sequence so rooms heated in the order they are used, but geofencing all rooms turned on together, and my Nest Gen 3 turned down my central heating when the EE mast was damaged in high winds, so now feel simple time setting are the better option.

The thing I have looked at is the claims of what the TRV heads will do, they are the devices which control each room, so unless living in an open plan house, homes with doors on each room the TRV is king. And the Wiser TRV claims some really good algorithms to ensure rooms up to temp on time.

There is also Honeywell Evohome, and Tado (If correct on selected) which work with OpenTherm, but Drayton Wiser uses same back plate as Hive.

 

[weehoose]

I will try and post a better picture tonight but the spur didnt seem able to come away much more.

Am I right in thinking that it might be easier disconnecting the stat receiver and programmer from the spur and then wire it directly into the boiler using 5 core cable. If it starts to get too complicated I'm happy paying someone to change it rather than risk it.

 

[RandomGrinch]

Am I right in thinking that it might be easier disconnecting the stat receiver and programmer from the spur and then wire it directly into the boiler using 5 core cable

It's swings and roundabouts.
Behind the FCU, I believe you should find four cables.
The mains supply to the FCU, a 5 core flex to the boiler, a 5 core flex over to the nearby stat and the flat, grey, triple and earth wire to the downstairs programmer.
As I was (perhaps poorly!) trying to explain to @CBW, with a little investigation, we may be able to discover how this triple and earth cable is connected.
If that can simply be removed, then the 5 core flex cables between the boiler and stat, are already in place and with a small modification, everything will work, without having to remove any more cables.
If it looks too complicated, after getting a better photo of the FCU, there's no harm proceeding with new wiring, but again, if you want to decommission the programmer, we need to ensure the triple and earth is fully disconnected.

An alternative (but not ideal), could be to keep the wiring to the programmer in place, connect the black (switched live) and brown wire (live), together in a wago, safely isolate the earth and the grey (neutral) wires in separate wagos, and then cover the hole in the wall with a blanking plate.
Then as in post 2, the grey wire could be moved from terminal 2 to terminal 1 of the stat backplate, ready for the Hive.

 

[weehoose]

These are as good a picture as I could take.

 

[RandomGrinch]

These are as good a picture as I could take.

Better - but not quite there for a full diagnosis

This appears to be the flat grey triple and earth that connects downstairs to the programmer...

Where the brown wire of that cable comes from, and where the black wire connects to, are what we are interested in; the grey wire can be seen to connect to Neutral which is expected.
The plastic terminal blocks above the cable are probably related.

 

[weehoose]

The brown wire goes into a block with a black wire that i think comes from the stat receiver.

The black wire goes into a block with a grey wire which I also think comes from the stat receiver.

 

[RandomGrinch]

The brown wire goes into a block with a black wire that i think comes from the stat receiver.

The black wire goes into a block with a grey wire which I also think comes from the stat receiver.

Thank you for that.
I believe that means we can just connect the wires in the two blocks together into one connector, and the triple and earth can be completely disconnected.
But give me some time to confirm the logic, before attempting anything!

 

[RandomGrinch]

Sorry, do you know where this black wire is going to?

 

[weehoose]

That black wire goes from live in the spur into 2 core flex and disappears to what looks like the boiler. The other black cable in the 2 core flex goes into a connector alongside a brown wire which also looks like it goes to the boiler. It certainly doesn't go to the stat receiver as I can see the cables for that.

 

[RandomGrinch]

That black wire goes from live in the spur into 2 core flex and disappears to what looks like the boiler.

Ok, I wasn't expecting a 2 core flex; that suggests there may be further connections that we can't see.

Because of this, I can't be certain of how your system is wired; feel free to ignore the following!

I still believe that the grey, 3 core and earth cable connects to your programmer.
My next step, would be to disconnect the brown wire from the connector block (isolate it safely), and see if your existing programmer has lost power and does not turn on (hopefully it doesn't have battery backup!).
If that is the case, we know we have the correct cable.
As the programmer is basically a switch that connects the brown wire and the black wire together...

The brown wire goes into a block with a black wire that i think comes from the stat receiver.
The black wire goes into a block with a grey wire which I also think comes from the stat receiver.

The black wire and the grey wire on the other side of the connector blocks can safely be joined together.

That should, theoretically, bypass the programmer.

If the boiler then behaves and responds correctly to the thermostat, it's hopefully an easy switch to the Hive and all the connections to the grey cable can be disconnected.

If this doesn't work, then it will be a case of redoing the wiring, or recruiting some professional help.

 

[weehoose]

Thanks for your help. It could well be time to just get an engineer in. There's no rush for fitting with it being summer though as everything is working fine. Im also questioning if I should have even bought hive after reading about opentherm and ideals halo system.

Since the spur is powering the the boiler, programmer and receiver and the wiring is a bit complicated is there not a good chance for easiness the engineer would disconnect receiver + programmer from spur and just connect the hive direct to the boiler with a surface mounted cable. He could even put the hive receiver where the other receiver was to hide the hole.

 

[Deleted member 267285]

Thanks for your help. It could well be time to just get an engineer in. There's no rush for fitting with it being summer though as everything is working fine. Im also questioning if I should have even bought hive after reading about opentherm and ideals halo system.

Since the spur is powering the the boiler, programmer and receiver and the wiring is a bit complicated is there not a good chance for easiness the engineer would disconnect receiver + programmer from spur and just connect the hive direct to the boiler with a surface mounted cable. He could even put the hive receiver where the other receiver was to hide the hole.

There are other opentherm capable thermostats, so not just limited to Ideal Halo. Opentherm would work better for you than on/off Hive.

 

[Mister Banks]

Thanks for your help. It could well be time to just get an engineer in. There's no rush for fitting with it being summer though as everything is working fine. Im also questioning if I should have even bought hive after reading about opentherm and ideals halo system.

Since the spur is powering the the boiler, programmer and receiver and the wiring is a bit complicated is there not a good chance for easiness the engineer would disconnect receiver + programmer from spur and just connect the hive direct to the boiler with a surface mounted cable. He could even put the hive receiver where the other receiver was to hide the hole.

IMO I think if you are going to the expense of getting someone to fit it then ditch the Hive for an Opentherm control.