fitting-less joints in gas supply

Whilst I am not qualified a gas safety engineer by any means, I am involved in medicines regulation as a profession and so am used to reading legal documents. Out of interest I've read the gas safety regulations 1998. I've copied in what I think the relevant bits.....

2. (1) In these Regulations, unless the context otherwise requires—

“appropriate fitting” means a fitting which—
(a)has been designed for the purpose of effecting a gas tight seal in a pipe or other gasway;
(b)achieves that purpose when fitted; and
(c)is secure, so far as is reasonably practicable, against unauthorised opening or removal;

(2) For the purposes of these Regulations—

(a)any reference to installing a gas fitting includes a reference to converting any pipe, fitting, meter, apparatus or appliance to gas use;

5. (1) No person shall install a gas fitting unless every part of it is of good construction and sound material, of adequate strength and size to secure safety and of a type appropriate for the gas with which it is to be used.

I would say that a socket-formed pipe made by the installer on site complies with all of the above. For information, when I called the original installer last night he said he was recently inspected on a new boiler install and the inspector said "oh you use these fittings, the are not so commonly used now", but he passed it all no problems.

Unfortunately the service engineer who came to my house yesterday was going to issue an ID if he saw these fittings to my boiler, and also said he usually finds the pipework inadequate to about 60% of the condensing boilers he services. He blamed this on most gas safe engineers being cowboys! Well, I won't be calling him again as he seemed more interested in trying to fault the install rather than actually servicing the boiler!

To answer CBF he measured the 2.5mbar at the pipework. He put in a fitting to do it.
 
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To answer CBF he measured the 2.5mbar at the pipework. He put in a fitting to do it.

If he cut a test tee in below the boiler and didn't just measure it at the gas valve there's a problem with the pipework.
I think vaillant specify 16 minimum at the gas valve, if you've got that with nothing else connected happy days. :LOL:
 
can one of you lot tell me what a swaged fitting bs number is
 
though not, sounds like the gas engineer that at first issued the ID has been mugged.
capillary and compression fittings shall conform to BS EN1254.
well any of you lot that slagged off this guy want to say something
 
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I am involved in medicines regulation as a profession and so am used to reading legal documents.

I would say that a socket-formed pipe made by the installer on site complies with all of the above.

To answer CBF he measured the 2.5mbar at the pipework. He put in a fitting to do it.

What makes you feel that you have sufficient experience of gas work to come to that conclusion based on a relevant background?

It is a "gas fitting" made up by the installer! Not one manufactured for the purpose.

Tony
 
Ok thanks for all the posts everyone. Gas board updated my supply yesterday, and now I've now got 20mbar at the meter. Gas board guy even checked it at the boiler pipework (the tee-piece put in) and pipework has 1mbar drop; I saw him test it. I feel happy everything is safe and sound now.

Apparently the service engineer I used has a reputation with the gas board, they all seem to know him and the one last night said he wouldnt let him into his own house and wouldnt be surprised to see him on rogue traders someday! I asked the gas board guys about the socket-formed joints and all said there is no problem with them. Obviously not everyone agrees, seeing some of the posts here. Well there are always going to be differences of opinions I guess. Anyway thanks again for the posts :D
 
it's clear and unambiguous non bs fittings shall not be used. my swagging tool was thrown out 25 years ago, i think some people have been working on their own for too long. to swage a pipe will thin the wall, where does this extra strength come from.
some people talk **** and others lap it up...45 years a gas fitter, dan keep abreast, wipper snapper, algas hundreds of fittings, and the 2 day course meter installer.
best stick to counting pills. your gas installation is at least NCS, i wonder how this would affect your insurance
 
Ok thanks for all the posts everyone. Gas board updated my supply yesterday, and now I've now got 20mbar at the meter.

It must be at least 30 years since there was a "Gas Board" !

I would expect it was the gas transporter. Varies with the location but often National Grid Transco.

By the way, where BS has been mentioned it means British Standards and not bull sh**

Tony
 
it's clear and unambiguous non bs fittings shall not be used. my swagging tool was thrown out 25 years ago, i think some people have been working on their own for too long. to swage a pipe will thin the wall, where does this extra strength come from.
some people talk s**t and others lap it up...45 years a gas fitter, dan keep abreast, wipper snapper, algas hundreds of fittings, and the 2 day course meter installer.
best stick to counting pills. your gas installation is at least NCS, i wonder how this would affect your insurance

I'll admit that I've learnt something, I would never have though twice about a swaged joimt on a gas line before. I've not actually made one myself since college given its faster to use a coupler. The concencus amoung professionals and some industry publications I managed to find on the web does seem to be that even though it's not allowed on gas, it is a stronger joint than using a coupler. Yes the wall on one pipe is thinner, but if you make the joint correctly the other pipe is inserted fully into the thinned section, fully supporting the thinned section.

I very much doubt that it would have any effect on insurance at all given that there is no requirement to upgrade a ncs to comply with subsequent regs. Very few regulation changes are retrospective. Flues in voids being a good example of one that is.
 
thanks rick, i hate to see people being put down for trying to do their job, it's hard enough without itching. (censor)
maybe not ID but this is a newish installation. people that are still using this fitting should be reported to HS and if done badly RIDDOR. the weakness is not the overlap but where the inserted pipe ends and the outer pipe is expanded
 

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