Fixing timber frames to interior brick wall for floating bench.

[Deleted member 174758]

1950s brickwork you should be able to use shield anchors

Resin anchors: for a 14mm threaded anchor you drill 16mm holes in your frame first. Offer the frame up to the wall and spot mark where holes need to go. Dril the holes (SDS drill) then blow out any debris with a pump. "Dry holes" where you hit a void in the wall need to be avoided (not used) and redrilled elsewhere. Using a gun pump the resin into the hole. Some resins can be used in a heavy duty 300ml caulking gun - the type we use is about 1-1/2 to 2 times the volume and needs a specialist gun. The resin needs to fill the hole about 1/5 or so (you aim for 10 bolts per resin cartridge in decent masonry or concrete with the Hilti resin we use) - it is a 2- pack system and the mixing occurs inside a special mixer nozzle, so for this reason you have to pump all the resin first in a single quick session. Partly miced resin goes off very fast in the nozzles. Once the resin is pumped you screw the threaded rods into the holes taking care to thoroughly coat the anchor threads in the resin (hence screw NOT push). The resins generally take 10 to 30 minutes to initial set point at which point the frame can go on the wall and washersand nuts applied, but only done up finger tight. The frame may need temporary support for a while. Most anchors will carry a good load after a couple of hours and can be tightened then. I normally visit after 24 hours to tighten fully. For professional guns we always request spare mixer nozzles (70p or so a pop) which allows us to break off resin filling if needs be - I don't know if they work with the 300ml cartridges

Note that where the frames won't be seen we'll often fix the frames temporarily to the wall with 6mm screws and brown plugs, with additional temporary supports and drill straight through the holes in the frame. It's a lot faster.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Good point,
I have rubble filled stone walls; resin fixings are the only choice, and they work very well!

On some of those we've had to resort to fixing a steel plate to the wall with lots of holes drilled in it to make sure we can a few decent fixes. Once our plate was in place the steel guys would come in to weld lips on to carry load

 

[RandomGrinch]

I don't know if the work with the 300ml nozzles

Yep, it does!

Spare nozzle:
https://www.toolstation.com/polyester-resin-chemical-anchor/p45283
Example stud:
https://www.toolstation.com/fischer-ftr-m-threaded-stud/p55597
Example Resin:
https://www.toolstation.com/fischer-fis-p-plus-injection-polyester-resin/p20881

 

[big-all]

a point to note
with out a tv point somewhere else you will have cables trailing elsewhere unless you have no need for tv via an aeriel??

 

[Kburrito]

1950s brickwork you should be able to use shield anchors

Resin anchors: for a 14mm threaded anchor you drill 16mm holes in your frame first. Offer the frame up to the wall and spot mark where holes need to go. Dril the holes (SDS drill) then blow out any debris with a pump. "Dry holes" where you hit a void in the wall need to be avoided (not used) and redrilled elsewhere. Using a gun pump the resin into the hole. Some resins can be used in a heavy duty 300ml caulking gun - the type we use is about 1-1/2 to 2 times the volume and needs a specialist gun. The resin needs to fill the hole about 1/5 or so (you aim for 10 bolts per resin cartridge in decent masonry or concrete with the Hilti resin we use) - it is a 2- pack system and the mixing occurs inside a special mixer nozzle, so for this reason you have to pump all the resin first in a single quick session. Partly miced resin goes off very fast in the nozzles. Once the resin is pumped you screw the threaded rods into the holes taking care to thoroughly coat the anchor threads in the resin (hence screw NOT push). The resins generally take 10 to 30 minutes to initial set point at which point the frame can go on the wall and washersand nuts applied, but only done up finger tight. The frame may need temporary support for a while. Most anchors will carry a good load after a couple of hours and can be tightened then. I normally visit after 24 hours to tighten fully. For professional guns we always request spare mixer nozzles (70p or so a pop) which allows us to break off resin filling if needs be - I don't know if the work with the 300ml nozzles

Note that where the frames won't be seen we'll often fix the frames temporarily to the wallwith 6mm screws and brown plugs, with additional temporary supports and drill straight through the holes in the frame. It's a lot faster.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Is there an easy way to check what weight they would support. I guess i will need to check the data specification sheet and try to work that out... From the looks of what I can see, they are meant to support a heavy load.

a point to note
with out a tv point somewhere else you will have cables trailing elsewhere unless you have no need for tv via an aeriel??

I didnt plan to remove the arial or the ethernet box, my render doesnt include all the details like sockets because it takes too much time for a small effort like adding in 3D model of sockets haha. But now that you mention it, I dont really have a need for an arial, dont really ever use that so may remove it for a better effect.

 

[foxhole]

So not floating, simple wall plugs and screws would be fine.

 

[Kburrito]

So not floating, simple wall plugs and screws would be fine.

I guess not fully floating, because of the 3 walls it can have support from, so i hope it would be pretty stable.

 

[foxhole]

I guess not fully floating, because of the 3 walls it can have support from, so i hope it would be pretty stable.

Either floating ( no visible support) or not.

 

[big-all]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Is there an easy way to check what weight they would support. I guess i will need to check the data specification sheet and try to work that out... From the looks of what I can see, they are meant to support a heavy load.




I didnt plan to remove the arial or the ethernet box, my render doesnt include all the details like sockets because it takes too much time for a small effort like adding in 3D model of sockets haha. But now that you mention it, I dont really have a need for an arial, dont really ever use that so may remove it for a better effect.

its more the trailing wires i was thinking about iff you dont need freeview or live tv you probably wont need it but as a back up worth keeping as iff the internet goes down you still have tv

 

[Kburrito]

Either floating ( no visible support) or not.

there will not be any visible supports . The frames will be horizontal, as in the 3D model render in previous post.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

I guess i will need to check the data specification sheet and try to work that out... From the looks of what I can see, they are meant to support a heavy load.

I've mainly used them on structural work, such as fixing steel angle plates (e.g 150 x 150 x 10mm cross section x 3 to 5 metres long on a previous job) to masonry walls to carry joists, floors and walls. etc, for fixing timber ledgers to walls and for steel or timber frames which will carry heavy loads such as air con units, water tanks, stair quarter landings, etc. Basically the anchors and resin are often stronger than the masonry they are fixed into (don't do many fixings into heavy concrete). It's maybe worth realising that a single 6 x 100mm steel screw will carry a static load of almost half a tonne before it snaps (we experimented on this, but note that the official load rating is about 200kgf), but often we are using resin anchors to overcome deficiencies in the quality of old masonry as much as anything else (e.g. where using shield anchors isn't really viable due to the bricks tending to crack when the shield anchors are tightened).