Flexible flue - is this as complete a bodge as I think it is

[SimonH2]

I own a flat in a fairly new development, and I'm in the process of buying one of the houses. I got someone in to do a safety check on the house prior to exchanging contracts - and it failed. Somehow I don't think the vendor is going to be very happy, I've already made him have the boiler repaired (which also wasn't working today) while he thought he'd just leave it for me to fix.

Anyway, when these properties were built, there is a flue built into the wall using precast blocks. I didn't realise this until I had the electric fire out in the flat to get the model off the back (needed new elements) and happened to look up. Needless to say, at every joint is a big bead of mortar that the bricky couldn't be a**ed to wipe off

Block flue

• SimonH2
• 18 Jan 2011
• 1

View up the block flue showing unwiped mortar at every joint

In the attic, there is a piece of flexible flue linking a pipe sticking out of the wall to a ridge terminal. For the flat, there are two in the same attic - meaning my flue can't be inspected/worked on without going though the flat above.

Two flues in attic above flats

• SimonH2
• 18 Jan 2011
• 2

Two flues in attic above flats

• SimonH2
• 18 Jan 2011
• 1

I especially like the way one of them is gaffer taped to the timber - so no clearance from combustibles there

And the flue in the house, just like those in the flats

Single flue in attic of house

• SimonH2
• 18 Jan 2011
• 1

Now I'm told these are not acceptable, hence the gas guy turned off the gas to the fire and put a big red sticker on it. So even if the vendor decides not to sell to me, he'll struggle to have people overlook that now !
I'm also told that this flue would not have been acceptable when the properties were built - I think around 1992 to 95. Is that the case ? If so, then I have to wonder where the building control inspectors were looking when they signed off the properties.

I flick through Part J, I see mention of not passing flues through other properties due to potential access problems. Did this apply back in the 90's as well ?


Oh yes, and just for good measure, the house has a fairly new fire installed - so I guess the installer either didn't look at all, or had his eyes closed when he inspected the flue.

I see this isn't a new or uncommon problem, as I see in threads like this and this and this.

Should I be saying anything to anyone about this - apart from making the house vendor sort it out ? Should I be trying to find out who installed the fire and tell their authorising organisation ? Or is that just wasting my time ?

I'll post another thread about the boiler - a British Gas job, so I imagine there'll be nothing new there either.

 

[transam]

Did not read your entire post but flexi flue liner is only suitable for lining flues not to be used as per your photos in the loft ! bodge up !

 

[dcds4]

Need to replace that with b vent or something, should be clamped and supported, liner is for lining...

Snots in the precast arent that bad, seen far worse

 

[hi1]

The post is a bit confusing, you mention electrical elements for the fire, electric fire, and then state the gas has been cut off to the gas fire. Is the fire gas or electric, are there two different types of fire both using the same duct and flue? I can't believe the ducting in the roof space, how theres not been a fire. Does the tenant in the upper floor flat complain of headaches or flu like symptoms? Its almost as whomsoever fitted the flue went to lunch and never came back to finish the job.

 

[expertgasman]

The post is a bit confusing, you mention electrical elements for the fire, electric fire, and then state the gas has been cut off to the gas fire. Is the fire gas or electric, are there two different types of fire both using the same duct and flue? I can't believe the ducting in the roof space, how theres not been a fire. Does the tenant in the upper floor flat complain of headaches or flu like symptoms? Its almost as whomsoever fitted the flue went to lunch and never came back to finish the job.

I beleive the electric fire is in his flat, the gas fire is in the proposed house ourchase.

 

[45yearsagasman]

Innapropriate use of a flue material.Unlagged,not supported,wrong transition piece,and that mortar in the flue blocks.....need I go on.An absolute abomination.

 

[Wangerman]

Is it one of JOE 90's ?

 

[45yearsagasman]

It would be to cruel to comment any further.

 

[doitall]

If I saw it, it would have an ID stuck on it and a riddor in the post.

 

[SimonH2]

I can't believe the ducting in the roof space, how theres not been a fire. Does the tenant in the upper floor flat complain of headaches or flu like symptoms?

Not that I know of, but I'll be mentioning it to him - he won't be happy either ! Actually, I doubt he'd suffer too much, when I was up there having a look, he was telling me how he suffers from cold draughts. He's had the windows changed, but he still gets a terrible cold draughts from the kitchen and even goes to the extent of putting a towel across the door to try and keep his feet warm in very cold weather.

Errr, now I come to think about it, that's not as good as it sounds, because I believe the draughts are coming down out of the attic. There is a soil pipe runs down from the attic (are air admittance valves allowed in attics - unlagged ?) through the corner of his kitchen with branches for his kitchen sink and bathroom, then down through my kitchen with branches for kitchen sink and bathroom. He used to complain about smells from my tenants (either strong cooking smells or ciggy smoke) but some expanding foam into the boxing in at my ceiling height seems to have cured that. I suspect his draught is from the attic, down the box round the soil pipe, out behind the kitchen units, and then out through all the gaps into the kitchen.

AAV

• SimonH2
• 19 Jan 2011
• 1

Air Admittance Valve in attic

Its almost as whomsoever fitted the flue went to lunch and never came back to finish the job.

There's other things I could say that about the place. I've been doing some work in the garage (fitted a thermal store in the flat to get rid of that ****** combi), and had the garage sockets made up into a ring main. For a few yards of cable they couldn't be bothered bringing the other end back to the fuse board And who sticks all the sanitary drains on the outside of a newbuild these days, the only internal soil/waste pipe for the whole development is for flats (and that's because the bathrooms are in the middle of the building) - the 5 houses all have outside plumbing
The nice elderly lady in the other upstairs flat jokes that when they built these they were only practicing.

If I saw it, it would have an ID stuck on it and a riddor in the post.

ID is applied, so you think I should be invoking riddor ?


Lastly, what about the two flues going through the attic of one flat ? Fixing that would be a lot harder as it would mean taking blocks out of the wall and turning the adapter round so it points through the cavity wall into an accessible space above the stairwell.

 

[doitall]

In my opinion, both flues are ID and Riddor, and thats how they would be treated.

 

[SimonH2]

In my opinion, both flues are ID and Riddor, and thats how they would be treated.

For now, I'll just leave it with the vendor to have it make safe and legal - or negotiate on price for me to take on the problem. Once the property is mine (ie the vendor is no longer able to be awkward) I'll consider reporting it.

I'll also go and speak to the other property owners and mention the problem - I'm sure that will be welcome*

* Welcome as in "thanks for alerting us to the risk of fire or CO poisoning" , or welcome as in "well thanks a lot for making a nice bill for us"

 

[ollski]

Flues are unbelievable, I would be going ID due to the multiple AR situations (transitions, flexi, support, rise etc etc). It looks like a mock up in a training centre where tou have to identify all the faults.

 

[londonboy]

The sockets in your garage might not be a ring main, could be a radial

 

[SimonH2]

The sockets in your garage might not be a ring main, could be a radial

They were a radial - that's why I "... had the garage sockets made up into a ring main". The house is the same

I have big plans for the house - but I'll need to save up for quite a while before I can afford to (effectively) remove the interior and rebuild it. For a small house it has a lot of wasted space, and as for having the consumer unit on the living room wall near the fireplace - like everything else, that was the easy place to put it (through the wall from the meter) so that's where they put it. The only saving grace is that it's near enough where most people would put the TV and hide it.

As an aside, apart from allowing people to read the meter without disturbing the occupant, is there any requirement for meters to be on the outside in those fugly boxes ?