for those in the know..
- Thread starter toffee
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Liar.Slogger said:
Slogger said:i want equal rights for all dont you
You have equal rights in this matter. If you were to wear a turban you would not be asked to remove it. If a sikh was to wear a crash-helmet he would be asked to remove it. I always take off my helmet if I go into a shop as a matter of courtesy. If you don't like the shop's rules, don't go in.
I think we all know that's not true anyway.Slogger said:i want equal rights for all dont you
you miss my point. a HELMET is a hard, protective device. If he tries to rob me, he is protected against my blows from the baseball bat i keep behind the counter for such occasions. (I dont, im speaking hypothetically). AND he isn't visible from the cameras, so it would be possible for him to rob us and get away with it. So when someone does enter the shop in a helmet, be it a cycle or a motorcycle helmet, it is always un-nerving for both customers and staff. The chances of him trying to rob us are pretty slim, but nevertheless, it is un-nerving. Would you walk into someone's house with a helmet on? No, so why walk into a shop where people have to work and shop?Slogger said:there has to be fairness in all the rules
ie if a turban wearing person comes in with shades on then you have the right to not serve him unless he unmasks himself
same goes for the veils
i have even had probelms with a cycle helmet so it is a one sided and racial attack on the white community
do you know how long it takes to take your helmet off with the undergarment in winter then you have no where to put the helmet and most cost in the order of £ 200 + its unfair to ask one and not all
i want equal rights for all dont you
Someone wearing a turbun - you CAN see their face, it isn't obscured. It isn't a protective instrument - you could defend yourself against them, as you could a normal person with no headgear on. It isn't intimidating.
Some shops have a sign up saying "please remove crash helmets" dont like it - lump it!
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I don't know that you can come up with a particularly sensible explanation. A lot of it is cultural and regional habits which have been established for so long that they have become considered to be a religious observance or "proper" behaviour.
In Northern European countries it is not unusual for men to wear ties.
In mediterranean countries it is not unusual for older women (esp. widows) to wear black.
In Moslem cultures it is not unusual for women to cover up
In catholic cultures it is not unusual for women to cover up and wear black (particularly if nuns)
In Jewish and Moslem cultures it is not unusual for men to have beards and cover their heads.
On European beaches it is not unusual for women not to cover up.
In places of worship it is not unusual for people to be expected to conform to the norms of the religion concerned (heads covered/uncovered by men/women; shoes on/off; scanty clothing not acceptable).
It's only when you are exposed to a culture unfamiliar to you that their practices seem strange (and yours to them).
In Northern European countries it is not unusual for men to wear ties.
In mediterranean countries it is not unusual for older women (esp. widows) to wear black.
In Moslem cultures it is not unusual for women to cover up
In catholic cultures it is not unusual for women to cover up and wear black (particularly if nuns)
In Jewish and Moslem cultures it is not unusual for men to have beards and cover their heads.
On European beaches it is not unusual for women not to cover up.
In places of worship it is not unusual for people to be expected to conform to the norms of the religion concerned (heads covered/uncovered by men/women; shoes on/off; scanty clothing not acceptable).
It's only when you are exposed to a culture unfamiliar to you that their practices seem strange (and yours to them).
I'm sure pagans and witches and suchlike don't object to scanty gear, in fact don't they dance around naked? Are you being Anti-Paganist?JohnD said:
hermes said:
As of course you noticed, I said "In places of worship it is not unusual for people to be expected to conform to the norms of the religion concerned " and I then gave some examples, including some where different religions had entirely opposite expectations.
For example, in an Anglican church men are expected to remove their hats; in a Synagogue the opposite is true.
When I attend ceremonies such as you describe, I generally attempt not to give offence by flouting accepted standards of behaviour.
JohnD said:
So you get your kit off?
JohnD said:
I had never thought about the fact that nuns cover up their heads...
however, whilst it is interesting about european men wearing neckties, my interest was quite specifically about the covering up the female body aspect and my possibly 'western' interpretation that it gave the impression that the wearer viewed the female body as something to be ashamed of or feel guilty about.
Interesting about the nun bit (nurses used to wear similar head gear).
I would also like to add (and please read all before shouting off at me...) that when I see women who do cover their entire face, I find it quite eerie and my children think it is scary.
I think that the western way again, is to wonder why something is being hidden.... it is so alien to us... and sometimes scary, like a mask or a balaclava would be.
Also, probably stems from scary movies with monks etc in long robes and hoods and covered dark faces.
That is not a rascist attitude... it is an honest observation and no way reflects on the type of person the wearer actually is!!!!
I still struggle with the 'dirty' aspect....
however, whilst it is interesting about european men wearing neckties, my interest was quite specifically about the covering up the female body aspect and my possibly 'western' interpretation that it gave the impression that the wearer viewed the female body as something to be ashamed of or feel guilty about.
Interesting about the nun bit (nurses used to wear similar head gear).
I would also like to add (and please read all before shouting off at me...) that when I see women who do cover their entire face, I find it quite eerie and my children think it is scary.
I think that the western way again, is to wonder why something is being hidden.... it is so alien to us... and sometimes scary, like a mask or a balaclava would be.
Also, probably stems from scary movies with monks etc in long robes and hoods and covered dark faces.
That is not a rascist attitude... it is an honest observation and no way reflects on the type of person the wearer actually is!!!!
I still struggle with the 'dirty' aspect....
oh and... perhaps the women who dress like this do so out of fear or guilt?
or perhaps because they absolutely want to and would not be vilified or discarded or harmed in anyway if they didnt?
Maybe they choose to wear these outfits totally happily..............?
my original thoughts on this came from curiousity as I really didnt know.
I cant judge whether people are right or wrong about their reasons (though I may hold a personal opinion)
I just wanted to know the reasons for it?
Worryingly, I felt uncomfortable about posting this topic..... because unfortunately, in the efforts to make an all accepting community..... some extreme pc brigades have instilled a fear of asking questions.
I feel that if (like me) you are ignorant on a subject... then not knowing can breed unease.
Being able to ask and discuss questions on subjects involving religious/race/culture etc different from your own can only help with understanding differences.
No, Ill rephrase that, asking questions will help accept, if not understand differences....
just thought Id mention that because I think it is important.
I have found many people feeling scared to ask for fear of being branded rascist or similar.
or perhaps because they absolutely want to and would not be vilified or discarded or harmed in anyway if they didnt?
Maybe they choose to wear these outfits totally happily..............?
my original thoughts on this came from curiousity as I really didnt know.
I cant judge whether people are right or wrong about their reasons (though I may hold a personal opinion)
I just wanted to know the reasons for it?
Worryingly, I felt uncomfortable about posting this topic..... because unfortunately, in the efforts to make an all accepting community..... some extreme pc brigades have instilled a fear of asking questions.
I feel that if (like me) you are ignorant on a subject... then not knowing can breed unease.
Being able to ask and discuss questions on subjects involving religious/race/culture etc different from your own can only help with understanding differences.
No, Ill rephrase that, asking questions will help accept, if not understand differences....
just thought Id mention that because I think it is important.
I have found many people feeling scared to ask for fear of being branded rascist or similar.
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