Forget it

[noseall]

They fit the criteria exactly.

They are in military uniform and displaying military regalia. How is that comparable or even fit in the bracket of 'religious group'? You might argue that they are Christians and they are wearing swords. But this is not what was questioned.
I'd be more surprised to see a military gathering WITHOUT weaponry.

Bit of a stupid comparison, as stated.

 

[Pat ex]

I'd support the removal of religious and national costume etc.

The only religious group i can think of, who carry knives and wear ceremonial dress are Sikhs.

They are in military uniform and displaying military regalia. How is that comparable or even fit in the bracket of 'religious group'? You might argue that they are Christians and they are wearing swords. But this is not what was questioned.
I'd be more surprised to see a military gathering WITHOUT weaponry.

Bit of a stupid comparison, as stated.

They're wearing ceremonial costume, and they represent the Church of England. The monarch of England is duty bound to protect the Church of England.

The Queen and the Church of England​

The Sovereign holds the title 'Defender of the Faith and Supreme Governor of the Church of England'. These titles date back to the reign of King Henry VIII,

The Queen, the Church and other faiths

As Sovereign The Queen has important and distinct constitutional relationships with the Established Churches of England and Scotland, dating back to the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries. As Head of the Nation and Head of the Commonwealth, Her Majesty also recognises and celebrates other...

www.royal.uk

 

[noseall]

Those people are not displaying weaponry out of religious obligations (as referenced to Sikhs) but out of military obligations. The fact that they go to church on Sundays, is irrelevant to the point made earlier....

The only religious group i can think of, who carry knives and wear ceremonial dress are Sikhs.

 

[Pat ex]

Those people are not displaying weaponry out of religious obligations (as referenced to Sikhs) but out of military obligations. The fact that they go to church on Sundays, is irrelevant to the point made earlier....

I think you're taking JP's post a little too seriously.
I suspect he made it a bit tongue-in-cheek.
And I pointed out that the strict criteria mentioned in this thread applies equally to the picture posted by JP, and especially in the light of OddsBodkin's knee jerk reaction.
To start putting additional criteria on the original "ceremonial dress" and "religious group" criteria is kind of moving the goal posts after the goal was scored.

You mentioned the kirpan, as worn by Sikhs. That is not a weapon, but a symbol of power and freedom, and the fight against injustice and oppression.

The kirpan is symbolic rather than functional, and is a reminder to Sikhs of their duty to fight injustice and maintain independence of spirit. It is usually about 8 inches long, is blunt and is worn sheathed and attached to a cloth belt, called the gatra (Fig 1). Such a kirpan is no more dangerous than a dinner knife and its use in an act of violence is practically unknown.

Caring for Sikh patients wearing a kirpan (traditional small sword): cultural sensitivity and safety issues | Psychiatric Bulletin | Cambridge Core

Caring for Sikh patients wearing a kirpan (traditional small sword): cultural sensitivity and safety issues - Volume 28 Issue 3

www.cambridge.org

 

[JP_]

You might argue that they are Christians

He's head of the Church of England. That's about as religious as you can get.

The Sikh blade is a ceremonial military weapon. Most would only carry one when in dress uniform.

 

[noseall]

He's head of the Church of England. That's about as religious as you can get.

Yes, but they are not displaying their weaponry as a homage to their religion. They are doing it for military reasons.

 

[Pat ex]

Yes, but they are not displaying their weaponry as a homage to their religion. They are doing it for military reasons.

I would argue that being the Defender of a religion, one must be prepared to fight for it, literally.
Onward Christian Soldiers and all that. The separation is like untangling cotton wool.

 

[noseall]

I would argue that being the Defender of a religion, one must be prepared to fight for it, literally.
Onward Christian Soldiers and all that. The separation is like untangling cotton wool.

Different argument.

 

[motorbiking]

I don't think its particularly fair that scouts and guides gave up sheath knives and sailors are cautious about rope cutters being left in a bag or attached to a life jacket stored, but religious groups seem to have the right to carry knives without good reason.

People get prosecuted regularly for having a knife left in a bag or in the boot, that was there for good reason, but is no longer there for good reason. I'd personally like it a bit more balanced. The burden of proof for the good reason defence is also on the accused, and that doesn't fit well innocent until proven guilty.

I would personally prefer a divers knife in my life jacket to a rope cutter, as its much more efficient to use. However, if I left it in the boot of my car and my G/f got pulled over - she'd have no lawful reason for having it. If you don't know its there you can't have a good reason for carrying it.

Yet hundreds of people are killed or attacked with knives, so its hard to find the balance. Bad people will find a way.

 

[JohnD]

I don't think its particularly fair that scouts and guides gave up sheath knives and sailors are cautious about rope cutters being left in a bag or attached to a life jacket stored, but religious groups seem to have the right to carry knives without good reason.

Don't you know what size is permitted? And what Sikhs do?

 

[JohnD]

What's this?

 

[motorbiking]

Don't you know what size is permitted? And what Sikhs do?

Yep. a folding knife under 3" - not very useful if your head is stuck under cold water and you can't cut your safety line.
I'm aware of the role of the Kirpan in Sikh faith and, that they make small ornamental ones for the purpose of airline travel etc. which are also acceptable to Sikhs.

I'm against a one rule for me because of my religion and a different rule for you. I'd like a rule which treats a knife as what it is - a tool and potentially an offensive weapon. Its the intent, bad character, location and probable reason for caring it etc. which is the issue.

Legal to have in your possession due to religion :

Not legal to have in your car boot, because it was left in there from a diving/boating trip:

Humans are forgetful, they leave tools in places and you shouldn't have the risk of prosecution, just because you left a tool in your car.

 

[JP_]

Yes, but they are not displaying their weaponry as a homage to their religion. They are doing it for military reasons.

So, the kirpan was never a military weapon?

 

[Mottie]

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[Deleted member 294929]

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