Formula 1 championship decider on Sunday.

[ajohn]

The race has turned F1 into a fiasco. The decision means they will have egg on their faces if they change the rules to prevent the same thing from happening again.

There was another rule change too. Allowing Lewis to keep the lead. Simple reason for that threatening Max with point reductions if he did his usual things. He did in a slightly different way. An overtake where the other driver had to leave the track or have a collision. Max doesn't care as if both didn't finish he still wins. Most drivers want to finish no matter how many points they have and he is for ever taking advantage of that.

The fact that they threatened Max with that shows they do know what has been going on which makes the entire thing even more of a fiasco.

 

[Justin Passing]

They weren't punished because the rule makers decided no rule had been broken

No. MV broke a rule by forcing LH off, but he lost the place because of it. So no action. LH did not just drive off the track.

 

[Justin Passing]

whatever at least the best driver won over the course of the season

Irrelevant. And you know it.

 

[Justin Passing]

why are you presuming i meant hamilton by whinging git ? as max has also moaned about various things over the season or have you come to the conclusion because its what you think of him ?

Also irrelevant.

 

[EFLImpudence]

max proved he was the better driver by winning more races and points

Only because of the 'rule bending'.

Without that he wouldn't have - won more races or had more points.

 

[Justin Passing]

irrelavent in what way? is that not the point of a season of racing to find the best overall driver over a differing array of circuits and weather conditions and max proved he was the better driver by winning more races and points

According to the rules, not according to some bloke's impression. The final race was part of the points-scoring. YOu don't waive the rules because of wwho's done better so far.


You're being a tit in this thread like you always are.

 

[Justin Passing]

obviously you don`t

We've all been told.
You're the one trying to justify changing the rules mid race on the basis that you think MV was the better driver etc, etc.

 

[gas112]

According to the rules, not according to some bloke's impression. The final race was part of the points-scoring. YOu don't waive the rules because of wwho's done better so far.


You're being a tit in this thread like you always are.

what are you finding hard to accept that the better driver won over the season ?

 

[RandomGrinch]

No matter what people's opinions are of the outcome, I am pretty sure that if the tables were turned and MV was leading into the first corner LH would also have taken the dive on the inside.
And if MV was leading at the restart, LM would have wanted those 4 lapped cars to be out of the way.
Personally, I think LH was let down by Mercedes conservative strategy.
Basically both drivers have been as good as, and as bad as each other throughout the season; and that is what has made it pretty epic!

 

[AngleEyes]

No matter what people's opinions are of the outcome, I am pretty sure that if the tables were turned and MV was leading into the first corner LH would also have taken the dive on the inside.

I disagree, only because LH could afford to play the long game.
For sure, if he was as desperate, and with nothing to lose, he would have taken the dive down the inside.
But, he wasn't and he didn't, so we're talking hypothetically.

And if MV was leading at the restart, LM would have wanted those 4 lapped cars to be out of the way.

I fully agree, and if Masi had obliged, I'd still be thinking that wasn't right.
If the call is given to allow lapped cars to un-lap themselves, it must apply to all lapped cars, it says so in the rules. You can't interpret that to allow some cars to un-lap themselves but not others.
Masi's decision was to allow first place to be contended, without the risk of second place being contended.

And now, having written that, I think there is a real possibility of the court making some kind of judgement that might affect the outcome of the championship. But I wouldn't like to predict what that judgement might be.

Personally, I think LH was let down by Mercedes conservative strategy.

There was no way that the team could plan for the unpredictable interpretation of the rules.

 

[ajohn]

Be interesting to see what F1 does next season. Hill made an interesting point on an earlier race. If they don't do something it will turn into dodgems. He also mentioned the technical fouls aspect as this has happened in the past. I can't see how they can change the rules now without looking stupid. They already do IMHO.

What they have done is decided to allow certain things that makes the viewing more interesting. If a team has 2 competitive drivers and a competitive car they can be inclined to take both cars off by racing each other, They rapidly jump on that for obvious reasons and enforce leave space but in practice usually decide one driver is No1.

This time it is 2 different teams. They want more overtaking in F1, What if it was 3 or 4 teams etc. They make changes to try and make overtaking easier but as lots is down to aerodynamics they don't work out. If they ever succeeded yet more situations.

 

[sxturbo]

.


There was no way that the team could plan for the unpredictable interpretation of the rules.

They could and they did and they elected not to pit. Lewis even argued that he should have stopped because of this situation.

Mercedes really thought they were going to finish under safety car.

 

[ajohn]

They could and they did and they elected not to pit. Lewis even argued that he should have stopped because of this situation.

Mercedes really thought they were going to finish under safety car.

Totally wrong. They kept him out to retain track position down to the fact that his tyres were capable of doing it and that he was maintaining it. Then up pops a safety car and that plus the way it was handled gave Max the win. Pure luck plus the way it was handled. If he had pitted he would still have lost. There also some risk involved in regaining track position.

You may have noticed that others gained due to the way it was handled.

 

[AngleEyes]

They could and they did and they elected not to pit. Lewis even argued that he should have stopped because of this situation.

Mercedes really thought they were going to finish under safety car.

They thought they were planning for the predictable interpretation of the rules, but the interpretation became unpredictable.
Normally, lapped cars would be allowed to un-lap themselves. That would have meant the race ending under safety car.
But then Masi interpreted the rules to say, cars would not be allowed to un-lap themselves. That would have meant five cars between 1st and 2nd for MV to pass, and he couldn't have challenged LH before the flag.
Horner complained, so Masi changed his mind. But crucially he interpreted the rules to hand MV an advantage, he allowed the cars between 1st and 2nd to un-lap themselves, but not cars between 2nd and 3rd. There is nothing in the rule book that allows for such interpretation, nor discretion. The very next rule allows the race director ultimate control of the safety car, not about which cars can un-lap themselves and which can't. It says that the instruction goes out to all cars, and all lapped cars are allowed to un-lap themselves.

If the lapped cars between 2nd and 3rd also un-lapped themselves, that could have made MV vulnerable to challenge from Sainz.
Masi's decision prevented that challenge and facilitated the unhindered challenge for first place.
That was totally unpredictable.

Then the normal safety car procedure didn't follow it's normal progress. Normally the safety car would come in at the end of the following lap after it's lights go out, and that would have been the end of the race. But it didn't, it came in at the end of the same lap. Again under Masi's direction, but again totally unpredictable.

 

[AngleEyes]

As far as the cars that were allowed to un-lap themselves, and those that weren't, here is the criteria for selecting which cars can un-lap themselves and which can't:

If the clerk of the course considers it safe to do so, and the message "LAPPED CARS MAY NOW OVERTAKE" has been sent to all Competitors via the official messaging system, any cars that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap and the Safety Car. This will only apply to cars that were lapped at the time they crossed the Line at the end of the lap during which they crossed the first Safety Car line for the second time after the Safety Car was deployed.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...grand-prix-on-its.7rTWOXxJ5lpvg38nrCYfM3.html​

If anyone can understand that, you're a better man than I, Gunga Din.
I only watched the belated highlights, so I have no idea which cars were applicable to that criteria, and which weren't.
I've never know that criteria to be applicable before, and as far as I know all lapped cars were allowed to un-lap themselves.

It doesn't change the fact that Masi initially decided that cars would not be allowed to un-lap themselves until Horner complained, and then he changed his mind.