So getting back to my question; Who should be expected to recompense the customer when the overload of an appliance destroys their home when it is not installed according to the MI's, the manufacturer or the installer who ignored the instructions?
Four electrical jobs in a kitchen - am I right?
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For a start,it would seem incredibly improbable that a house would ever be destroyed because an oven's electricity supply was protected by a 32A OPD but would not have been destroyed were it a 16A OPD.
I somewhat tire of the 'blame culture' that we have come to have to live with. My hope would be that thee house's insurer (assuming there was one!) would simply pay up on the basis of the event having been 'one of those things', with no-one being 'blamed'.
However, if it did happen, if it got into the hands of lawyers/courts and if attempts were being made to'blame'someone,then it would come down to an argument between expert witnesses, and who knows what the outcome would be?
The argument that no-one was 'to blame' would be based on an expert opinion that the installer reasonably believed that an oven is "not likely" to result in an overload current (with the expert agreeing with that view) and therefore that the installation was fully compliant with BS7671. A contrary opinion would have to be that the oven was "likely to result in an overload current" (in which case a Court might ask why it was being sold) and/or simply based on what the MIs said - but the latter would presumably be cross-examined about the reason why the MIs said what they did.
I know which of those two arguments I would personally find the most compelling but, given that legal arguments are as they are,who knows which view would prevail?! If this got to Court,that Court would have to decide whether,"on the balance of probabilities", it felt that the house would not have been destroyed had there been a 16A OPD, although it was destroyed when ut was a 32A one. Again,I know what my personal view about that would be - but,even if it were decided that the house would not have been destroyed had there been 16A protection, it would still be necessary to decide whether anyone was 'to blame', if it were accepted that the installation were compliant with BS7671.
Despite what I state I am in agreement with the above however I have been involved with repairs to an oven where that situation did cause internal damage and the repair agent did some testing, stated the warranty was null and void due to the improper installation, left a replacement element (of a very different design) for someone else to fit and left a full report of the damage that he had found.
Hence the reason I have differing views to others about that particular rule
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OP here - many thanks to everyone who's posted.
I've been silent because I've been watching and trying to understand the debate. As a DIYer, I get some of the points everyone's making but not all. So I've decided not to do any of the four things I mentioned originally myself and to get an electrician in. It means the timescales for completing the kitchen are going to be pushed back but discretion / valour, etc.
I've had quotes from three businesses and, if you're interested, all three have recommended separate circuits, one each for the hob, first oven and second oven. This is partly because of the current wiring and CU but also because they feel it's the safest and most future proof way to go.
Thanks again.
I've been silent because I've been watching and trying to understand the debate. As a DIYer, I get some of the points everyone's making but not all. So I've decided not to do any of the four things I mentioned originally myself and to get an electrician in. It means the timescales for completing the kitchen are going to be pushed back but discretion / valour, etc.
I've had quotes from three businesses and, if you're interested, all three have recommended separate circuits, one each for the hob, first oven and second oven. This is partly because of the current wiring and CU but also because they feel it's the safest and most future proof way to go.
Thanks again.
If it's any consolation, at least some of the major contributors to the discussion have not been 'electricians'- so I suppose, essentially "DIYers"!
Interesting. My experienced is fairly limited, but I would say that is fairly unusual (in the UK),it being much more common for all the main cooking appliances (whether in the same case or 'separates') to be supplied by one 'cooker circuit'. Designed properly, there's nothing 'unsafe' about that.
Kind Regards, John
What do you have at the moment?
If you have a standard 30A or 32A, 6mm² cable 'cooker' circuit, that will be adequate for any domestic cooking appliances you are likely to have now or in the future.
When you say cooker cable, do you mean the bit just from the wall to cooker?
If not and you mean the cable from CU to kitchen, are you sure it is 4mm²?
That's very unusual; is it relatively new?
Still technically alright if not routed through any thermal insulation.
If not and you mean the cable from CU to kitchen, are you sure it is 4mm²?
That's very unusual; is it relatively new?
Still technically alright if not routed through any thermal insulation.
The house was built in 1996 but everything I've found in the 10 years I've lived here points to it being built on the cheap. So yes, I'm afraid the cable from the CU to the kitchen is just 4mm... I have no doubt that you're right about it being technically OK - I've never had any problems in the past - but I get why the electricians are recommending additional circuits, especially as laying the new cables will be easy given how the house is constructed.
Fair enough.
If you want the additional 'reassurance' of having 6mm² cable (even if 4mm² is probably 'technically OK'), if it would be easy to install new cables to create multiple circuits, it presumably would be at least as easy to change the 4mm² cable to 6mm² and then have just one 'cooker circuit', just like most people have?
Kind Regards, John
I'm glad to see common sense prevails with some professionals.
Thank you for sticking with it.
Just trying to ensure the OP is not going to be ripped off.
Do you not find it strange?
I find it rather odd that all three are advocating exactly the same three circuit solution.
Do you not find it strange?
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