foxhunting ban?

[AdamW]

if foxes are a menace shoot them
do not prance about as a large mass of people pretending
your doing any thing other than being barbarick saviges

Here here! If I was sentenced to capital punishment, and was given the choice of being shot or of being gutted by dogs, I would take my choice with the lead.

As you say, if they are a menace shoot them. In Africa if there is a lion stalking into the village, they don't all jump on the backs of elephants and say "Hey, let's get the elephants to TRAMPLE the lion!". No, they shoot it.

 

[ZenStalinist]

I'm all for the ban. The thing I don't understand is how people are supposedly ruining 'tradition'.

Since when was that an excuse?

In Formosa, now Taiwan, they complained when the emporer outlawed their 'tradition' of a monthly human sacrifice. I suppose the country alliance would allow that too?

Fact is, foxhunting is beyond cruel, and it only makes sense for it to be banned. Shooting is much quicker, much more humane, like others have said, plus MORE EFFECTIVE.

If foxes are a problem, shooting them is more likely to solve the problem.

I'm not saying go and kill all the foxes, that'd make no sense at all, but when foxes have been overhunted around here, the hunting community breeds the b*gg*rs and releases them into the wild to hunt!

Yeah, great way of controlling the fox population...

(and no, I'm not pretending that foxhunting is nearly as barbaric as human sacrifice, I'm using it as an example of how tradition should not be used as an excuse for being cruel or doing something immoral.)

 

[pipme]

......the hunting community breeds the b*gg*rs and releases them into the wild to hunt!

More than one of the b*gg*rs seems fine .... But then who gives a bugger ?

edit : - Ah ha !! Took a while, thought we got away with the plural ... ModOnTommy !!
P

 

[planenut]

When it comes down to it, there are several sports involved in the barbaric event called "fox-hunting".
The control of vermin is nothing to do with it.
For hundreds of years since people have used horses for transport they have also raced them. The Steeple-chase became the challenge race from one village to the next, i.e. from one steeple to the next that one could see. Apparently there is joy in racing across countryside on horses, jumping fences and hedges, anybody with a horse could join in. We nowadays assume it costs money to own and use a horse, so the majority use motor vehicles, which must be cheaper? therefore it seems that only those with loads of money ride. At present the townies who want to play at countryside turn up and cause chaos with the rest by parking their vehicles all over the place.
The hunt developed when they found that the chaos created caused the foxes to run out, but then some people ran their dogs at the same time, which got distracted from the race to chase the for.
There is a sport where the trail is laid artificially for the hounds - so there is no need to wait for a fox to pass by.
Let the farming community run fox shoots.
Let the horsey types race on a pre-determined route with permission to cross land already granted.
Let the hounds follow a "laid" trail.
Then we can concentrate on moaning about speed cameras etc...........

 

[Chris!]

ZenStalinist, in response to your message (sorry, bit late): -

In your message you quote - "I'm all for the ban. The thing I don't understand is how people are supposedly ruining 'tradition'."

Fox and deer hunting has NEVER been traditional! You might find it interesting to know that this barbaric activity is man-made; many years ago foxes never lived in the UK so were imported from Europe and released into the country to breed for this purpose. This is evidenced by several ledgers containing the related costs.

The banning of such activities has the a majority backing - I can't understand why it's taking so long to recieve royal ascent; oh yes I do, MONEY . I actively participate in campaigns for this ban and appreciate the views of all those who have expressed an opinion - especially as on the whole many people are somewhat confused by various justifications put forward for debate

 

[oilman]

Utter claptrap,i dont care how the countryside works (it doesn't,its subsidided by us townies

Utter claptrap indeed. So I presume you never visit this "subsidided" place on a matter of principle.

As for fox hunting, I may or may not agree with it, YOU don't know, but as with anything else, don't knock it 'till you've tried it.

 

[ZenStalinist]

Chris, I was sort of aware on your point of it not being tradition. I always had thought that the Norman-French aristocrats had imported it.

Another thing I see is how the hunting people are saying that use of the parliament act would be 'undemocratic'. On the contrary, I think anyone can see that when an unelected house blocks decisions made by a democratically elected house (by a large majority, too) - that is undemocratic, and any use of the parliament act ensures democracy can prevail within this issue.

 

[oilman]

democratically elected house (by a large majority, too)

More claptrap. The present government was elected by a minority of the electorate. If you were to have proportional representation, you could be a bit closer to democracy, but not with the present system. The numbers of MPs are influenced by a very small proportion of voters

 

[Chris!]

Absolutely ZenStalinist!

I truely believe that because they are a minority they feel victimised and rely on this to intimidate the general public into thinking that what they do is some kind of specialism and needed.

With all their wealth, they are in a much better position to find a more intelligent pass-time than the majority of us, who incidentally have no malice toward animals at all - just each other (only joking!).

 

[ZenStalinist]

More claptrap. The present government was elected by a minority of the electorate. If you were to have proportional representation, you could be a bit closer to democracy, but not with the present system. The numbers of MPs are influenced by a very small proportion of voters

What I was meaning was that the MPs voted by a large majority to have hunting with hounds banned.

 

[Chris!]

I knew what you meant!

This is very true, much to the disappointment of our own local MP who admits whilst he himself is pro-hunting with dogs, the majority of his constituency are against it .

 

[oilman]

What I was meaning was that the MPs voted by a large majority to have hunting with hounds banned.

I also knew what you meant. The proportion of the total electorate voting was nowhere near 100%. The number of people who voted for the government's MPs in the house was even smaller. The policy was not a major part of their manifesto. People do not care much about manifestos anyway because most of us think that most politicians are liars. Political parties do not win elections, governments lose them.

As for the nation being concerned about the welfare of animals, more claptrap. There are overstretched establishments for unwanted pets, cases for maltreatment of animals, plonkers who release mink which then kill everything they can get their teeth into, etc. etc. etc. Fox hunting is a nothing by comparison.

 

[ZenStalinist]

Our MP voted pro-hunt constantly - Anne McIntosh (con)

I'd say that although the Countryside Alliance and such have a lot of influence around here, a lot of people are anti-foxhunting, just not very loud about it, though I'm not entirely sure. Perhaps half and half on the issue of a ban.

 

[Damocles]

Once upon a time I read a SF novel, I think by Larry Niven. This concerned the Frumious Bandersnatch. The Bandersnatch in question was not the invention of Mr. louis Carol, but the result of an alien breeding program to create an absolutely delicious food animal. Only due to some complicated inter galactic politics, the Bandersnatchii were designed intelligent. They were also designed as dirty great worms.

Now these Bandersnatch made a deal with the guys from Earth. Selected humans would be allowed to hunt and Kill the Bandersnatch, in return for a fee. Bandersnatch being big, tough and powerfull, this was not a wholly one sided sport. The Bandersnatch had nothing else to sell for technology to get themselves out of the mess of being stuck on this stupid planet, with no arms for handy things like making tools.

The point is, The Bandersnatchi got what they reckoned was a fair return for a few of them being hunted to death. Maybe humans might make the same choice.

The pheasant is a case in point. Lovely birds. i love to see them in the countryside. But if they weren't bred and released so that they can be hunted and shot, they would not exist wild. Mostly eaten by foxes, probably. So ask a pheasant, and maybe they would agree to being hunted, in return for the chance, however small, of living a free life.

The case of the fox is a little different. Foxes are quite a successful wild animal. They may die nasty lingering deaths from starvation if the population grows too big, or occasional lingering deaths from shotgun wounds. But on the whole they survive quite well. Part of this is that huntsmen deliberately encourage them. To ensure that there are enough to hunt. It might be that a hunting ban could be the end of the fox.

 

[wickerman]