Freeview Numbers

[ericmark]

In the living room we can either watch Freeview direct on TV or through the set top box, the set top box also has satellite, which the numbers start as Freeview finishes, and it is now connected to mothers bed room so she can continue to watch end of program when in bed, also anything recorded on the set top box, which has a 2 TB hard drive connected to it.

This means when mother goes to bed can't really swap channels I need to swap from set top box to Freeview built into the TV, or go upstairs and watch it on a Sky box.

With Channel 10, 14, 15, 19 and 20 the numbers always seem to be the same, some times the program does not exist, but if there numbers are the same.

However with higher numbers there does not seem to be any set order numbers like 801 can be anything. The set top box often asks if it can re-search for channels and I often find channels have gone or arrived back, not a problem when you have time to find the channel, but when looking as one program ends it's a real pain.

Upstairs is even worse the Polaroid TV has analogue 1 ~ 99 and digital only starts at 100, some channels I can remember the Sky number, at least they don't change.

So the question, is it just my TV's or do all Freeview TV's swap channel numbers around all the time, is the only way to have static channel numbers to use Sky?

 

[ironsidebod]

Every Freeview TV and set top box I've used for as long as I remember have had the same channel numbers, Dave is always on 12 for example. 801 is usually the alternate BBC 1 if you can receive a weaker signal from another area. Even the cheapy boxes I've set up were consistent with the big player TV manufacturers. Both Freeview and Freesat mandate numbers and potentially the programme guide and so on.

The only time the numbers have moved around is when they were fiddling around with frequencies and we all had to retune frequently.

 

[ericmark]

ITV 3= 0800
Channel 4 +1 = 0801
More 4 = 0802
QVC = 0803
On one box and
BBC One Wales= 800
BBC Two = 801
BBC One N = 802
ITV HD = 803
on the other, this is just one example. When I tried to look on the internet 171 to 185 are marked as pay channels so much for Freeview. 700 to 805 are all radio on one box, on the other they are TV. Up to 99 it seems to work OK it is after 99 it all seems to go to pot.

 

[Lucid]

Depending on the devices, you may have the option to re-order the channels so that you get some consistency from device to device. Check the manuals.

 

[ericmark]

Yes I can re-order the numbers with the set top box, however it is common for it to tell me there have been program changes and to re-scan, on doing that it would revert to old numbers. I am sure there is something wrong with either the aerial or the mast head amplifier, however a garage next door means access is hard, the roofing firm used ladders to paint landers, but to work on chimney likely it would require scaffold, likely cheaper to start again and place aerial other side of the house.

So I am trying to get away without touching the aerial or pre-amp. We had one TV guy come to sort it, his meter showed aerial was very good, then it went back again, I suspect water in the mast head amplifier to begin with I blamed the power supply to the mast head amplifier as if I set TV to give 5 volt it seemed to work, so got new power supply, however it will work for a few weeks then fail, play with it, does not seem to matter what I do and long as the power supply has been disconnected for some time, and it all works again.

Since we have satellite when it goes wrong we still have TV, but we have 4 TV's and three satellite boxes, so having one TV which will work with Freeview is an advantage, two set top boxes are Sky so same channel numbers, but the third works with both Freeview and satellite and is HD connecting to main TV with HDMI cable. The RF output is degraded if the link lead is connected to allow both analogue and digital signals to next room, until a week or two ago it was connected and in other room we watched Freeview and did not bother with the RF output from the set top box.

However after renewing cable between rooms we still have not got a good Freeview signal, however we have now got a very good analogue signal from the set top box, I have 3 days left before mother returns to work out best method. Lucky the TV has a hard drive, so if I can record some programs I have a back up I can use, but it seems the hard drive is picky on which signals it will record, it will not record from a HDMI connection, however from the analogue RF it will record, so idea is to record some of mothers favourites so even without any aerial there is something which can be played on the TV. Pity I have to record in real time, but since the TV has a pause function I can actually set it so mothers TV is 1/4 hour behind main TV which means she does not miss anything, although not sure how much she actually understands anyway.

All this for everyone else in the house, my bedroom has no TV at all, I watch films on the PC and videos but no TV in the bedroom, and I don't miss it.

 

[Lucid]

Yes, re-ordering the channel numbers isn't an ideal solution. As long as the channel mix continues to change on Freeview then I don't think there'll be a simple answer. However, it is the least worst option. What would probably help is to keep a record of your preferred channel arrangement; at least that would make the 'dialling in' process less time-consuming.

We have just gone through yet another channel reshuffle on Wednesday (15-Mar-2017). Some of this was prompted by certain channel broadcasters changing their hours of coverage and their geographic reach. The days of an entirely fixed channel roster are over.

Your problems with the masthead amp/aerial still seem to be causing you issues. I'd agree with your assessment; maybe it's time to grasp the nettle and put the aerial in a more accessible location and bottom these issues once and for all.

As for the issue of poor signal when you have both Freeview and RF2 analogue down the same bit of coax: This could simply be the analogue and digital channels trying to occupy the same space in the frequency band. Have you tried shifting Sky's RF2 picture to one of the channels in the 60-68? You may need to try each of the channels one-by-one to find the best of the bunch.

 

[ericmark]

I think all three of the satellite boxes are rather poor with the RF output, I have tried moving channels and it does alter the amount of degrading of signal, but it never removes the problem, other than mothers bed room there are satellite boxes and now thanks to your suggestion I also have a good signal in her bedroom from one satellite box. Mother is 92 and dementia is getting worse, be it due to death or forced to put her in a home, I do not expect to live here more than a year. If we rent will will not be leaving the satellite boxes or TV's although coax and dish and aerial will remain but I have no idea what the new occupants will want, so really not inclined to go to any great lengths to sort things out.

At home I gave up Freeview years ago, it was such a pain always re-tuning, I think from what I have seen here I may put up an aerial at home at end of garage and use Freeview again. But at home I can see the Moel-y-parc transmitter from front door, so aerial only needs to be 10 foot high, that is a different thing from here, I intend to use an old caravan aerial at home, I can just about pick it up on a loop in the front window, so even a simple di-pole would do.

Here however we have two aerials both high gain one aimed at Moel-y-parc the other at Winter Hill, today with digital there is really no need for two aerials but it was all fitted when we had just 4 analogue channels the mast head amplifier combines the signals and sends it down as two coax feeds which seem to be the same, it must be same amp as powering one coax means you get a signal from the other. My son has said he thinks he may be able to reach the mast head amplifier and he thinks best idea is simply remove it. My dad was a fiddler like me, but unlike me no formal training with radio, so he thought the bigger the aerial the better, so would buy broad band aerials from Tandy well before we needed broad band aerials because they were bigger so in his mind must be better.

I am sure he did not fit the aerials now up, but do think they are over kill. The guy who fitted the dish tested aerials and was getting a full scale reading, remember also powered from his meter. The house is full of TV aerial amplifiers, clearly my dad also had problems. But the amplifiers do not help, I was taught rubbish in then rubbish out, and as said the intermittent fault is likely the pre-amp so rubbish in.

 

[winston1]

Sounds as if you are not using proper Freeview boxes but generic DVB-T boxes without LCNs. Or perhaps you have switched LCN off, but that is not usually possible with proper Freeview boxes.

 

[ericmark]

Logical Channel Number or LCN is just what I want, after your post I looked it up and found this and yes it helps to know there is a area for every type of program, page 11 lists them.

Except for BBC regional programs it does seem all but the Polaroid TV do follow the general rules, I see it all ends at 750, but I have a load of channels starting at 790 and going to 817. These vary box to box and TV to TV since the IceCrypt puts the Freeview first when showing both Freeview and satellite together the numbering goes into the 1000's and satellite starts at around the 820 mark.

Although the Blaupunkt does follow the LCN there is nothing in the Polaroid TV or Blaupunkt TV adverts which says if they follow the LCN or not.

The Icecrypt Twin Tuner HD Satellite + Terrestrial HD box does follow the LCN list to some extent however the advert linked to lists a whole list of what it will do, but nothing about LCN so if they do not say if they use LCN or not, how do you select a TV with it?

 

[winston1]

Make sure your equipment is set to UK mode otherwise channels can be put in the 800's. Also duplicates with the same LCN get tossed into the 800s. e.g. if you receive two regions one will be put in the 800s.

 

[Astra99]

For what it's worth, it sounds like your freeview boxes are picking up signals from both Moel-y-Parc (in the B group) and Winter Hill (mainly in the C/D group of channels). Which transmitter should you be receiving as the primary? If it is Moel-y-Parc, then once the tuner gets to Channel 53, (during auto-tuning) pull the aerial out. This will prevent channels from Winter Hill (mainly 54 and above) being stored. I seem to recall that the last channel received by auto-tune takes the lower numbers. Anything occupying the lower numbers is relocated to 800+.

HTH

 

[ericmark]

Years ago when we had just 4 channels two aerials were fitted and a mast head amp which linked to two aerials together, since then a garage has been built next door and there is no longer access from a ladder. So what is in the air stays as it is until it completely fails at which point good by terrestrial.

The LG TV's with built in hard drives are also a problem, if they find a new channel they display an annoying notice telling one to return, which is a pain, the Icecrypt Twin Tuner HD Satellite + Terrestrial HD box also does the same, but at least that one is easy to tune, a simple single press of OK.

In some ways they are better than Sky, at least I don't need to wade through loads of channels I can't get due to being scrambled, but at around 9 pm we retire from the communal living rooms into other rooms, and when one has found something interesting one want to be able to move to another TV in the adverts and tune into the channel.

But Channel 10 on the Freeview set is ITV3 but on the sky boxes it's 119 OK I know that one, but watch More 4 and there are a whole host of numbers and not a clue where they are, where I can set order it's ITV, ITV+1, ITV2, ITV2+1, ITV3 etc. But that's not how freeview sets it up.

It seems there is nothing I can do, well one thing is record the program at around 9pm so can watch end next day, 2TB hard drive on the Icecrypt Twin Tuner HD Satellite + Terrestrial HD box so I can record a far bit. I just swap hard drives and watch program on the PC.