Garden Lighting Advice

[ban-all-sheds]

I think you should look up the Asperger Sally and Ann test. And then try to see it from the point of view of first time posters with a problem outside of their usual field.

I think you should read that article again and see if 2nd time around you can find anything belittling about it, or indeed if there's anything there which is written in a way which assumes that the reader doesn't have beliefs which do not match reality (given that the whole point of it is to correct the mistaken belief that "low voltage" means 12v....)

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

Ah, you kind of prove my point. I was not saying the article was offensive. I was saying that you know that the article exists and have read it (and for all I know written it). You assume that the knowledge must be known to everyone because you know it.

However, the first time poster has some hurdles to jump to find the article. So it is only fair, if every time someone is tempted to belittle a new poster by pretending to misunderstand what they mean by 'Low Voltage', that they instead simply tell them where to find the information, and give a clue about what the link is going to tell them.

And, by the way, I am not singling you out in any way, I am only saying this because you responded.

 

[JohnW2]

However, the first time poster has some hurdles to jump to find the article. So it is only fair, if every time someone is tempted to belittle a new poster by pretending to misunderstand what they mean by 'Low Voltage', that they instead simply tell them where to find the information, and give a clue about what the link is going to tell them. .... And, by the way, I am not singling you out in any way, I am only saying this because you responded.

Indeed (and nor am I singling anyone out). The cases which disturb me most are not those in which someone overtly 'belittles' a poster by pointing out their 'error' with less than tactful language but, rather, when they respond to a poster with a sarcastic comment which will almost certainly not be understood by someone who has made the 'error'. Fortunately, someone else usually then jumps in and 'explains', but if that does not happen, the poster will be left confused and bemused, if not 'frightened off'!

As I've said, the underlying issue we're discussing is unlikely to go away (any time soon, if ever) but there certainly is, IMO, scope for some to be more decent and understanding in the way they 'educate' those who are 'not in the know'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Ah, you kind of prove my point.

You are seriously hard-of-thinking, aren't you.

I was not saying the article was offensive. I was saying that you know that the article exists and have read it (and for all I know written it).

I did write it.

You assume that the knowledge must be known to everyone because you know it.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

If I were assuming that, why would I have written that Wiki article which explains what "low voltage" and "extra-low voltage" mean for the benefit of people who don't know?

However, the first time poster has some hurdles to jump to find the article.

True, and they are unlikely to even attempt to jump them if they have no idea that they need to.

But that is a facet of the generic problem, so often manifested here, of people fiddling with things which they do not understand, and which they know they know little if anything about.

And, by the way, I am not singling you out in any way, I am only saying this because you responded.

I should hope you are not singling me out, because unless I've forgotten an atypical example, I don't belittle people in that way, unless they deserve it because they are calling themselves electricians or because they have taken it upon themselves to carry out work of such scope that it was imperative that they knew enough about the regulations to have known what the terms mean before they started the work.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

Ah, you kind of prove my point.

You are seriously hard-of-thinking, aren't you.

If I were prone to using such insulting language, I would suggest that it is you who is 'seriously hard-of-thinking'. See below though.

I was not saying the article was offensive. I was saying that you know that the article exists and have read it (and for all I know written it).

I did write it.

OK, well done!

You assume that the knowledge must be known to everyone because you know it.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

If I were assuming that, why would I have written that Wiki article which explains what "low voltage" and "extra-low voltage" mean for the benefit of people who don't know?

By 'knowledge', I was actually referring to the word 'know' in the previous sentence. The point being (in re Sally and Ann) that you assume that because you know the article is there, that so does anyone else you address. It is interesting that you can't grasp this point.

However, the first time poster has some hurdles to jump to find the article.

True, and they are unlikely to even attempt to jump them if they have no idea that they need to.

But that is a facet of the generic problem, so often manifested here, of people fiddling with things which they do not understand, and which they know they know little if anything about.

My only comment is that I am proposing that information can be given in a helpful and non-smug manner. I have seen posts from you where you go out of your way to be helpful and informative, so I know that you are able to do this.

And, by the way, I am not singling you out in any way, I am only saying this because you responded.

I should hope you are not singling me out, because unless I've forgotten an atypical example, I don't belittle people in that way, unless they deserve it because they are calling themselves electricians or because they have taken it upon themselves to carry out work of such scope that it was imperative that they knew enough about the regulations to have known what the terms mean before they started the work.

[/quote]
This is the bit which would leave me speechless, were it not for the fact that I am aware that, statistically, people with a good grasp of technical knowledge are often those with very poor theory of mind skills. It is with this background that I truly believe that you are not aware of the unnecessary hurt you inflict on some people who visit this forum, by the tone of your postings.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

By 'knowledge', I was actually referring to the word 'know' in the previous sentence. The point being (in re Sally and Ann) that you assume that because you know the article is there, that so does anyone else you address. It is interesting that you can't grasp this point.

What is interesting is that you are so hard of thinking that you can't grasp the point that having written the article I have frequently pointed people at it, precisely because I know that they don't know it's there.

My only comment is that I am proposing that information can be given in a helpful and non-smug manner. I have seen posts from you where you go out of your way to be helpful and informative, so I know that you are able to do this.

Good.

Have you seen ones where I have been smug?

This is the bit which would leave me speechless, were it not for the fact that I am aware that, statistically, people with a good grasp of technical knowledge are often those with very poor theory of mind skills.

Please do not be so f*****g stupid as to think that because I believe that this is a spade:

and that this is not for beating around:

that I'm somewhere on the Autistic spectrum.

It is with this background that I truly believe that you are not aware of the unnecessary hurt you inflict on some people who visit this forum, by the tone of your postings.

If I think someone is ignorant or incompetent I will tell them that, and sometimes people are hurt by being told that they don't know something or are not capable of doing something, I can't help that.

But usually you'll find that those who moan about the "tone" of my postings have decided to pretend that there are words in them which are not actually there and then decided to get upset about the words they imagined.

 

[SimonH2]

Please do not be so f*****g stupid as to think that because I believe that this is a spade:

and that this is not for beating around:

that I'm somewhere on the Autistic spectrum.

There's an element of "speak as you find". Over the last few posts, you've gone into what could be called "classic BAS mode" - if anyone disagrees with you, then they must be wrong, and you back this up with insults.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Over the last few posts, you've gone into what could be called "classic BAS mode" - if anyone disagrees with you, then they must be wrong,

In this case people have been wrong.

and you back this up with insults.

If I think that someone is being so f*****g stupid as to make diagnoses because I don't suffer fools and I get to the point, then I will say so.

 

[seasickstevie]

And it was all going so nicely.

 

[JohnW2]

I think this could be a prize case for moving to an "honestly titled" new spin-off thread, since the last page or two have had remarkably little to do with garden lighting. However, I hate to think what an "honest title" for the new thread would be!

Kind Regards, John

 

[SimonH2]

In this case people have been wrong.

FWIW, in the "discussion" that led to your outburst, I'm with DetlefSchmitz.
You apparently were incapable of understanding things that seemed clear to me, and then resorted to personal insults. I don't recall anyone else starting with them.

Mind you, I don't expect you to accept there could be any truth in that.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

And it was all going so nicely.

Until Detlef decided to have a go at me even though I had said nothing to the OP about LV/ELV, and even though I've written a helpful Wiki about it (apparently that gives me some kind of personality disorder which he can diagnose).