Garden lights.... is this safe ?

[Melvin]

I intend to fit the following:

5 GU10 LED walkover lights in decking
2 dual GU10 spot light posts on decking
2 GU10 spot lights in garden
1 GU10 spot light on decking

All 230V, and each wired seperately to an outdoor 4 way weatherproof switch (95422 screwfix) so I can choose which lights are on or off.

Heres the dodgy bit... I have an old old junction box (house is 100 years old, no idea how old box is, but it's the fuse wire push in type) so I don't want to go there! Instead, can I plug in an RCD adapter (like the ones you use for a lawn mower) and run power to the outdoor switch from this (I can unplug when not in use).

Also, is arctic cable 1.5mm plus conduit for exposed areas ok ?
Or, is 0.75mm pond pump flex sufficient ?
Is HiTuf better than Arctic (more expensive though).

I don't want to use SWA as I am not sure how to earth it all.

 

[fattony]

Can I ask how you intent to get around the Part P side of things here?

 

[GaryMo]

Melvin, get an electrician to give you a quote.

 

[Melvin]

Ah... I knew that would pop up. I hoped running past it with my hands over my eyes would work!

More seriously though, I realise it isn't the way to do it professionally, mainly the 'plug it in the wall part', but if the rest is ok for rain proof, sun proof etc, I'd take my chances based on the fact that the lights would only be plugged in, and therefore live, when we were there using them.

If I was persuaded well away from the above by you guys, I'd have to cough up for an electrician to do it for mucho wonga !

Perhaps a compromise would be if I put my shoes on and the leccy tied the laces sort of speak... I do the wiring up to the house, then a professional wires it to the house (is a spur a better option??).

 

[Melvin]

removed (same message twice sorry)

 

[flyingsparks]

If you leave it on a RCD pluh top, you dont need to worry about part p or test and inspect.

 

[GaryMo]

If you leave it on a RCD pluh top, you dont need to worry about part p or test and inspect.

It's still a fixed installation and will therefore require notification under Part P.
A plug and socket isn't a get-out clause.

 

[Melvin]

That sounds more interesting... so how about the cable. I'm picking up lights from screwfix soon to complete my set (I have limited spare cash so do things bit by bit!!), and hope to lay flex before I do the decking (another DIY job, got that bit sussed), that way I can hide it all under the deck boards out of harms way once eveything works.

What is the best easily available flex? is 0.75mm too small, I did research that suggests 1 or 1.5 is fine for many more lights than what I have.

Also, if I drill a hole in wall for flex, anything I need to know first ?

Thank you for replies

 

[breezer]

If you leave it on a RCD pluh top, you dont need to worry about part p or test and inspect.

It's still a fixed installation and will therefore require notification under Part P.
A plug and socket isn't a get-out clause.

i think the jury is still out on that one.

look at the armadillo kit clicky

yes it doesnt say part p is not required, but neither does it say it is

 

[GaryMo]

i think the jury is still out on that one.

I certainly hope common sense isn't though. How does the installation change just by having a plug on the end of the cable which in all likelihood will be plugged in permanently?

 

[plugwash]

If the system is a complete set with plug and socket connections then that is a getout clause. IMO theese "some wiring required" products probablly don't count but IANAL.

 

[Melvin]

i think the jury is still out on that one.

look at the armadillo kit clicky

Breezer, that's just the job ! Essentially what I was describing but with armoured cable to boot. I'll look into this and work out which way is cheapest/safest.
Thanks for that !

 

[breezer]

How does the installation change just by having a plug on the end of the cable which in all likelihood will be plugged in permanently?

there are a lot f things that have a plug top that are "permanent" (i.e never moved until said thing is changed)

oven for example (oven, not cooker) TV, the computer you are looking at now.

in all these cases you do not require part p since it is just plugged in.
i agree an oven is an appliance, but a computer isnt, but you dont go moving your computer once you have plugged it in do you

take for example a string of garden lights, you could plug those in, and fix the cable to what ever. you still dont need part P. you only fix them to what ever to keep them out of the way or to light the area under them or to stop them going for a walk, but you can move them if you want.

common sense will never prevale, how many times have you heard "well it works doesnt it?"

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Ye gods - the number of things wrong on that Armadillo website. They appear to know so little about the subject matter on which they claim to be experts, how on earth can you trust their product?

there are a lot f things that have a plug top that are "permanent" (i.e never moved until said thing is changed)

The distinction is "fixed", not "permanent".

oven for example (oven, not cooker) TV, the computer you are looking at now.

A built in oven is a fixed appliance, and it is so whether it is plugged in or not. It may be no more permanent than the TV or the computer, and you may well not move the TV or PC around any more than you move the oven, but they are not fixed electrical equipment. The oven is, and the Building Regulations say (with my emphasis):

“electrical installation” means fixed electrical cables or fixed electrical equipment located on the consumer’s side of the electricity supply meter;

in all these cases you do not require part p since it is just plugged in.
i agree an oven is an appliance, but a computer isnt, but you dont go moving your computer once you have plugged it in do you

“electrical installation” means fixed electrical cables or fixed electrical equipment located on the consumer’s side of the electricity supply meter;

I don't move my fridge or washing machine or dishwasher or tumble drier around, but they are not fixed either.

take for example a string of garden lights, you could plug those in, and fix the cable to what ever. you still dont need part P.

Breezer - I can't believe that after all these years you still don't seem to understand the difference between whether something is covered by Part P and whether it is notifiable or not.

If you fix the cable it becomes fixed, and therefore it becomes a controlled service with requirements imposed by the Building Regulations, including Part P of the Building Regulations, whether you like it or not.

you only fix them to what ever to keep them out of the way or to light the area under them or to stop them going for a walk, but you can move them if you want.

It doesn't matter why you fix them, or if you would be able to later unfix them and move them - if you fix them they become fixed electrical cables or fixed electrical equipment.

Turning to the Armadillo product, if you fix the sockets, or the cable, then it becomes fixed electrical cables or fixed electrical equipment, it is clearly on your side of the electricity meter, therefore it becomes what the Building Regulations define as an “electrical installation”, therefore the provisions of the Building Regulations apply.

The Armadillo product escapes being notifiable because of 3(c) in Schedule 2B, but that is all it escapes - it still has to be installed safely, so if you connect up a lot of extension units you still need to verify continuity, polarity and that your fault loop resistance is within limits.

But these external lights that Melvin wants to install, no matter where and how they are connected to the supply are not exempt from notification. They are fixed electrical equipment, and even if plugged into an exempt Armadillo socket outside they do not become exempt themselves.

And not only are they notifiable, but given that he's making design decisions which are compromised by his lack of skills (e.g. flex lying on the ground), I'm not sure that he's going to be able to guarantee that he's done it safely either.

 

[GaryMo]

Cheers Ban, you put that better than i could even dream of!