Garden PIR install from radial light circuit?

[sergeantash]

Hi all,

I want to install a PIR style light outside overlooking my garden, I'm in the midst of kitchen renovation and so have the opportunity to put in a nice neat switch in the kitchen that allows me to turn it on and off etc.

My questions are:

- If I were to use a 500watt/1000watt PIR, could this be a spur from my downstairs radial light circuit or would it have to be mains - my CU is RCD protected?

- Based on the above, what weight cable would I run to it? Would it have to be specialised cable as it'll also pass outside.

- Where the cable exits outside through a hole that I'll drill through the wall, what sort of shielding is required where the cable will run up the wall to the light?

Many thanks!

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

My questions are:

- If I were to use a 500watt/1000watt PIR, could this be a spur from my downstairs radial light circuit or would it have to be mains - my CU is RCD protected?

is your downstairs lighting circuit not mains?
If it is, you can use it providing the extra load does not then exceed the maximum output for the circuit.

- Based on the above, what weight cable would I run to it? Would it have to be specialised cable as it'll also pass outside.

Not sure of the weight of the cable but you will be looking at a current capacity of about 6A

- Where the cable exits outside through a hole that I'll drill through the wall, what sort of shielding is required where the cable will run up the wall to the light?

Depends, if the cable will not be in danger of mechanical damage, the consideration will be extremities of weather.
So Hi-Tuff would be a good choice.

 

[17thman]

I think you need to look at the building regulations with regards to the amounts of watts you want to consume or produce in your rear garden. I dont think 500W is allowed. I stand to be corrected.

 

[flameport]

I dont think 500W is allowed.

Quite right - 500w halogens are not permitted and haven't been for years.
If they are controlled with PIR sensors, 100W is the maximum per fitting.
If you want more than 100W, lamps must be 45 lumens per watt or above, which rules out all incandescent and halogen types.

Even if they were permitted, no garden needs a 500w light in it anyway.

All notifiable work as well, as it involves the kitchen.

 

[sergeantash]

I dont think 500W is allowed.

Quite right - 500w halogens are not permitted and haven't been for years.
If they are controlled with PIR sensors, 100W is the maximum per fitting.
If you want more than 100W, lamps must be 45 lumens per watt or above, which rules out all incandescent and halogen types.

Even if they were permitted, no garden needs a 500w light in it anyway.

All notifiable work as well, as it involves the kitchen.

Thanks all for the responses - so can I install these for instance?

http://www.wickes.co.uk/120w-twinspot-pir-floodlight/invt/702841/

At 120w it is very low power and so would be fine on my existing lighting circuit, but should I attach an FCU inline even thought my CU is RCD protected?

Also, the cabling will exit the house through to the exterior approximately 9ft up the exterior wall and then travel slightly higher to the location of the light itself - it'll be out of the way of any potential mechanical/human damage, so if I use Hi-Tuff I wouldn't need to encase it in anything else?

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Thought it was 150W max lamp cap?

 

[sergeantash]

Thought it was 150W max lamp cap?

Just found this:

- Either, lamp capacity does not exceed 150 Watts per light fitting and the lighting automatically switches off when there is enough daylight and when it is not required at night;

- or the lighting fittings have sockets that can only be used with lamps having an efficacy greater than 40 lumens per circuit-Watt.

 

[JohnW2]

Unconstructive d1ckhead... flameport, although with the best of intentions, was wrong - although I would be more inclined to take note of his posts than yours. If you refer to my prior post, it would appear that I would be permitted to install this sort of fitment:

- Either, lamp capacity does not exceed 150 Watts per light fitting and the lighting automatically switches off when there is enough daylight and when it is not required at night;

I think the point being made, albeit very rudely, was that the lighting fitting you are proposing has 2 x 120W lamps (i.e. 240W total) and therefore exceeds the maximum '150 Watts per lighting fitting' which you coirrectly quote.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[sergeantash]

Unconstructive d1ckhead... flameport, although with the best of intentions, was wrong - although I would be more inclined to take note of his posts than yours. If you refer to my prior post, it would appear that I would be permitted to install this sort of fitment:

- Either, lamp capacity does not exceed 150 Watts per light fitting and the lighting automatically switches off when there is enough daylight and when it is not required at night;

I think the point being made, albeit very rudely, was that the lighting fitting you are proposing has 2 x 120W lamps (i.e. 240W total) and therefore exceeds the maximum '150 Watts per lighting fitting' which you coirrectly quote.

Kind Regards, John.

Hi John - thanks for your input, I doubt that anyone expects anything less of 'BAS'...he's best placed on Ignore.

The way that I interpret the regulation is "lamp capacity does not exceed 150 Watts per light fitting", therefore a PIR light such as that to which I linked has 'two' light fittings (two bulb fittings), each 120W each and so would be permitted?

Do you know firmly the correct interpretation of this regulation?

 

[JohnW2]

The way that I interpret the regulation is "lamp capacity does not exceed 150 Watts per light fitting", therefore a PIR light such as that to which I linked has 'two' light fittings (two bulb fittings), each 120W each and so would be permitted? Do you know firmly the correct interpretation of this regulation?

As will all such things, I doubt that you will ever get a 'firmly known' interpretation. However, given the reasons that this regulation exists, I would be extremely surprised if your interpretation were correct - what would be the point in banning lamps >150W if you could have ten 100W ones mounted side-by side in the same 'lighting unit'? Certainly in terms of 'common use', the phrase 'light fitting' usually refers to such a 'unit', regardless of how many lampholders/lamps it has.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[sergeantash]

The way that I interpret the regulation is "lamp capacity does not exceed 150 Watts per light fitting", therefore a PIR light such as that to which I linked has 'two' light fittings (two bulb fittings), each 120W each and so would be permitted? Do you know firmly the correct interpretation of this regulation?

As will all such things, I doubt that you will ever get a 'firmly known' interpretation. However, given the reasons that this regulation exists, I would be extremely surprised if your interpretation were correct - what would be the point in banning lamps >150W if you could have ten 100W ones mounted side-by side in the same 'lighting unit'? Certainly in terms of 'common use', the phrase 'light fitting' usually refers to such a 'unit', regardless of how many lampholders/lamps it has.

Kind Regards, John.

Thanks John, I see your point, I'm going to call Building Regs tomorrow and see what they saw! I'll let you know )

 

[sergeantash]

Just got a call-back from the Building Regs department of my local council - he commented that it was rare that they'd ever get involved in minor fittings like this as most are performed under the 'competent professional' scheme, i.e. electricians.

He did agreed that the regulation is confusing and that it is absolutely open to interpretation as to what '150W per fitting' actually means.

Interesting

Thanks again for your help guys - I've opted for a twin lamp (2 x 42W) unit instead

 

[riveralt]

Just got a call-back from the Building Regs department of my local council - he commented that it was rare that they'd ever get involved in minor fittings like this as most are performed

Indeed but they do get involved when you do the work yourself rather than employing an electrician member of a competent persons scheme.
So have you notified them of the work you are proposing to conduct?
Do you intend to notify them?
Or are going to employ the services of an an electrician.
Did you notify them for your front garden lights, your downlights in the bathroom, the downlights in the kitchen, the changes to your consumer unit etc...?
Did you complete the appropriate testing or complete certificates recording those results?
You may not like flameport response or BAS and his sometimes over the top and critical comments on your proposals but he got it right when

Am I still the only one who thinks this guy is in w a a a a a y over his head?

 

[sergeantash]

Just got a call-back from the Building Regs department of my local council - he commented that it was rare that they'd ever get involved in minor fittings like this as most are performed

Indeed but they do get involved when you do the work yourself rather than employing an electrician member of a competent persons scheme.

BAS and his sometimes over the top and critical comments on your proposals but he got it right when

Am I still the only one who thinks this guy is in w a a a a a y over his head?

Thanks for the clarification...do you speed on public highways? Its illegal, and just a few MPH above the limit could get you killed...Now keep your rude, patronising, arrogant posts to yourself and f*ck off from thread.

We're DIYers, that's the purpose of this forum, we ask questions because its far better than going ahead blind. If you don't have anything constructive to add (i.e. not answering the question that I asked), I suggest you find another thread.

It puzzles me, if you and BAS are such great self-proclaimed role-model electricians or otherwise, how do you have time to frequent a forum during the day? But then, every forum needs a troll!

 

[riveralt]

Just got a call-back from the Building Regs department of my local council - he commented that it was rare that they'd ever get involved in minor fittings like this as most are performed

Indeed but they do get involved when you do the work yourself rather than employing an electrician member of a competent persons scheme.

Thanks for the clarification...do you speed on public highways? Its illegal, and just a few MPH above the limit could get you killed...Now keep your patronising posts to yourself and f*ck off from this thread.

That is a rather odd response - I simply asked if you were doing the electrical refurbishment of this friends house yourself and if so had you informed your Local Authority Building Control. I take it from your vitriolic response that the answer to that is "NO - I don't give a toss about breaking the law - I haven't really got a clue what I am doing so I will come on this forum, piecemeal, and try to figure out what I have to do. Testing that is for wimps."

We're DIYers, that's the purpose of this forum, we ask questions because its far better than going ahead blind. If you don't have anything constructive to add (i.e. not answering the question that I asked), I suggest you find another thread.

Sadly your perception that Diyers are above the law is incorrect - the law applies equally to you and the rest of us. The most constructive thing I can say is that you are breaking the law, you are out of your depth and there is a good chance you will cause harm to yourself unless you get someone in who knows what they are doing. Do it soon and they may rescue the electrical situation in the house before it becomes terminal.

Clearly you're another candidate for 'ignore' - it puzzles me, if you and BAS are such great self-proclaimed role-model electricians or otherwise, how do you have time to frequent a forum during the day? But then, every forum needs a troll!

Why should it puzzle you? Ignore me if you wish but perhaps its just an inconvient truth that you feel very uncomfortable when challenged over the legality of the work you are doing and tend to lash out accordingly.