Gas Safe Help - At risk boiler due to flue location

[gaswizzard]

The problem here is the flue termination could be classed as NCS when the engineer visits on that particular day , a week later the homeowner has the window open and depending on weather conditions POC could enter property , this should be classed as AR at the very least , IT IS AT RISK.

I wonder how the courts would react if say the customer died of CO posioning a week after signing it off as NCS.

 

[ollski]

In January tens of thousands of flats where the flues are run in a void will be classified 'at risk', most landlorded and a large proportion with no realistic option to bring them up to standard. Are we now saying these old guys and young kids etc will not be allowed heat and hot water?

 

[Phill Peck]

Its up to the engineer to classify it as At Risk or Not to Current Standards.

The window could be screwed closed.

But if you do that in the kitchen and its the only opening window then it probably becomes At Risk if you have a gas cooker.

BG have probably asked their engineers to be more consistant ( strict ) with their classifications!

Tony

Screwing the window shut does not comply. It's still an opening in the fabric of the building. Although that should make it NCS

I appreciate you are in Italy and it is difficult for you to check but you need to check the boiler instructions for a distance as there is general guidance but manufacturers instruction are the rules.

 

[mickyg]

The problem here is the flue termination could be classed as NCS when the engineer visits on that particular day , a week later the homeowner has the window open and depending on weather conditions POC could enter property , this should be classed as AR at the very least , IT IS AT RISK.

I wonder how the courts would react if say the customer died of CO posioning a week after signing it off as NCS.

Sorry but this is ridiculous. What your suggesting that every flue thats too close to a window is At Risk. We test on the day we are there and record details that we find while we are on site. We then categorise according to regulations.
Flue too close to window = NCS
POC entering building = ID
It cant be any clearer than that.
If people are so scared to leave an NCS just in case this and that, than im sorry they're in the wrong job.
Any installation can become a danger a week after leaving the job. Maybe we should just ban gas all together seeing as its so amazingly risky ! !

Sorry adam, nothing personal

 

[kirkgas]

Its up to the engineer to classify it as At Risk or Not to Current Standards.

The window could be screwed closed.

But if you do that in the kitchen and its the only opening window then it probably becomes At Risk if you have a gas cooker.

BG have probably asked their engineers to be more consistant ( strict ) with their classifications!

Tony

Screwing the window shut does not comply. It's still an opening in the fabric of the building. Although that should make it NCS

I appreciate you are in Italy and it is difficult for you to check but you need to check the boiler instructions for a distance as there is general guidance but manufacturers instruction are the rules.

screwing the window shut will solve the boiler prob as the OP has said its 200mm from the openable window, as it only needs to be 150mm from a fabric opening in the building
to the OP any chance of a pic from the outside to give us a look at the actual job?

 

[gaswizzard]

The problem here is the flue termination could be classed as NCS when the engineer visits on that particular day , a week later the homeowner has the window open and depending on weather conditions POC could enter property , this should be classed as AR at the very least , IT IS AT RISK.

I wonder how the courts would react if say the customer died of CO posioning a week after signing it off as NCS.

Sorry but this is ridiculous. What your suggesting that every flue thats too close to a window is At Risk. We test on the day we are there and record details that we find while we are on site. We then categorise according to regulations.
Flue too close to window = NCS
POC entering building = ID
It cant be any clearer than that.
If people are so scared to leave an NCS just in case this and that, than im sorry they're in the wrong job.
Any installation can become a danger a week after leaving the job. Maybe we should just ban gas all together seeing as its so amazingly risky ! !

Sorry adam, nothing personal

I was merely pointing out a scenario , to have a NCS one minute then an ID if the weather changes seems foolish to me , I still stand by what I said as it is at risk of POC entering building , although I do class as NCS as per regs.

No problem Micky.

 

[nickso]

Its up to the engineer to classify it as At Risk or Not to Current Standards.

The window could be screwed closed.

But if you do that in the kitchen and its the only opening window then it probably becomes At Risk if you have a gas cooker.

BG have probably asked their engineers to be more consistant ( strict ) with their classifications!

Tony

Screwing the window shut does not comply. It's still an opening in the fabric of the building. Although that should make it NCS

I appreciate you are in Italy and it is difficult for you to check but you need to check the boiler instructions for a distance as there is general guidance but manufacturers instruction are the rules.

screwing the window shut will solve the boiler prob as the OP has said its 200mm from the openable window, as it only needs to be 150mm from a fabric opening in the building
to the OP any chance of a pic from the outside to give us a look at the actual job?

My understanding is if it is within the prescribed distance, screwing it shut does not comply as it can be unscrewed. It has to be a purpose made unopenable window to comply.

 

[FiremanT]

My understanding is if it is within the prescribed distance, screwing it shut does not comply as it can be unscrewed. It has to be a purpose made unopenable window to comply.[/quote]

I understand that the same issue had a bearing in the hotel room CO death investigation.The original fitter took the rap because he considered a screwed down window non openable - with tragic results for all concerned

 

[pampers]

In January tens of thousands of flats where the flues are run in a void will be classified 'at risk', most landlorded and a large proportion with no realistic option to bring them up to standard. Are we now saying these old guys and young kids etc will not be allowed heat and hot water?

yes most if not all the affected blocks(large development 7k + dwellings probally 30+% with powermaxes) round her have been notified by the original builders ,been given free of charge c0 detectors, been told how and probable cost of meeting regs and have been told on each service/landlord cert for last 2 maybe 3 years of what's going to happen and on what date so if they haven't done it by then and the risk assement i carry out says turn it off i will with there permission turn it off label it thus and leave them with no heating or hotwater and will not have a second thought about it.

One off instal some where else i may feel slightly different but as they should have been having it serviced yearly there's no reason why they shouldn't know about it either ,unless they have been using a" £30 and ill service your boiler, give you a cert ,put up a couple of curtains type of gasfitter"

 

[JJH]

Hi all thanks for the replies. The boiler is a chaffoteau britanny if that helps. Am i right in thinking if i can get the original gas fitter that issued the last three certs to assess again i can get this decision reversed? i guess he would do that considering its not been raised as an issue before. i cant manage a photo at present but will try to get our utterly useless management company to send me one. Thanks to you all

 

[FiremanT]

Are we now saying these old guys and young kids etc will not be allowed heat and hot water?[/quote]

have been told on each service/landlord cert for last 2 maybe 3 years of what's going to happen and on what date so if they haven't done it by then and the risk assement i carry out says turn it off i will with there permission turn it off label it thus and leave them with no heating or hotwater and will not have a second thought about it.


Absolutely. There has been more than adequate warning.

Having said that, if I did that type of work, I would not be visiting without an agreement to rectify. Why should you spend your time,deisel and cash on forms and labels without getting paid. 'Cos I would be surprised if it would be easy to extract any cash for just cutting them off!

 

[doitall]

Should be possible to change the flue to a different type if available.

 

[Agile]

I sometimes wonder how its classified if the installer cowboys have not cut off the flue correctly and it sticks out 450 mm !

 

[ollski]

In January tens of thousands of flats where the flues are run in a void will be classified 'at risk', most landlorded and a large proportion with no realistic option to bring them up to standard. Are we now saying these old guys and young kids etc will not be allowed heat and hot water?

yes most if not all the affected blocks(large development 7k + dwellings probally 30+% with powermaxes) round her have been notified by the original builders ,been given free of charge c0 detectors, been told how and probable cost of meeting regs and have been told on each service/landlord cert for last 2 maybe 3 years of what's going to happen and on what date so if they haven't done it by then and the risk assement i carry out says turn it off i will with there permission turn it off label it thus and leave them with no heating or hotwater and will not have a second thought about it.

One off instal some where else i may feel slightly different but as they should have been having it serviced yearly there's no reason why they shouldn't know about it either ,unless they have been using a" £30 and ill service your boiler, give you a cert ,put up a couple of curtains type of gasfitter"

We have hundreds of listed building flats round here with things like vaillant vertical flues running through voids with access only available through neighouring properties. I will be at risking them and turning off at a user control as per regs., won't be surprised if they all get turned back on though!