Gas usage with Housewarmer economy 44 boiler

[camerart]

Not sure what the UK gas price is capped at but maybe around 7.0p/kwh?
If you install a new boiler then you should get ~ 88% efficiency even with little or no condensing so a saving of 20.45% on your 70% efficient boiler.
Don't know how much gas you use per year, but assuming the above price at 7p/kwh, then if you use a unlikely 5000kwh/year = £350, saving £72/year, simple pay back on say £2300 for a new boiler + installation, 32years, if you use 10000kwh/annum = £700, saving £143, pay back 16years and if you use 15000kwh/year (like I do) = £1050/year, saving £215, pay back 10.7years. I'm sure someone can give far more accurate numbers than these but you get the rough idea, but doesn't take account of increasing fuel costs over the years.

Hi J,
The gas pices went up yesterday, so I'm not sure what they are today, but I think they were 11p/KWh (plus standing charge)

(see above) I think some of the inefficiency is heat exchanged up the chimney, but ignoring that I think I use app 5000/year, so it looks like from an economic view, it's not worth changing boilers. (I'm not so young as I used to be )

Thanks for your calculating, for me it's a nightmare looking at the bills and working them out
C

 

[Madrab]

I doubt much heat gets out of the chimney pot, so it kind of heats the house.

Hi C, I kind of understand your thinking but no TBH it don't think it would add to the heat of the house, all it would do really, if at all, is heat the edges of the chimney and that would heat the air around it, that will cause an increased up draught in the chimney and that will pull in cold air from outside through any vents, under the doors/windows and anywhere else there are gaps in the fabric of the house offsetting any benefit

Certainly smog is no longer an issue and things are far better - due to the clean air act of 1956 - smokeless zones were created around a lot of the cities and areas and industry had to clean up their act and coal fires etc were slowly replaced over the next 20 years to oil/gas fired CH, se we certainly are better off. Unfortunately though it's been replaced by an invisible impact primarily by CO2 and methane emissions.

 

[camerart]

Hi C, I kind of understand your thinking but no TBH it don't think it would add to the heat of the house, all it would do really, if at all, is heat the edges of the chimney and that would heat the air around it, that will cause an up draught in the chimney and that will pull in cold air from outside through any vents, under the doors/windows and anywhere else there are gaps in the fabric of the house offsetting any benefit

Certainly smog is no longer an issue and things are far better - due to the clean air act of 1956 - smokeless zones were created around a lot of the cities and areas and industry had to clean up their act and coal fires etc were slowly replaced over the next 20 years to oil/gas fired CH, se we certainly are better off. Unfortunately though it's been replaced by an invisible impact primarily by CO2 and methane emissions.

Hi M,
Ok, on the pilot light, I'm clinging to straws here, but maybe it's warming the water a bit, as it in the same vicinity as the flames.
Anyway, it doesn't make that much difference really.
That draft thing has always been a problem, with cold air coming under the door, and sausage dogs trying to stop it, that I now know, shouldn't be stopped. I have a hole in the floor boards just in front of the fire, to cut the drafts path, so not efficient, I use that room as a workshop.
As a matter of interest, the fire at the front of the back boiler, doesn't have safety cut off, so I've got a gas monitor, which goes off even if I clean something in another room. (Not good!)

I may just get a new boiler fitted, as it would be nicer

Yes, I don't think most of the world is listening to the warnings, apart from the catastrophies that are appearing all over, but that's another subject.

 

[fixitflav]

Not sure what the UK gas price is capped at but maybe around 7.0p/kwh?
If you install a new boiler then you should get ~ 88% efficiency even with little or no condensing so a saving of 20.45% on your 70% efficient boiler.
Don't know how much gas you use per year, but assuming the above price at 7p/kwh, then if you use a unlikely 5000kwh/year = £350, saving £72/year, simple pay back on say £2300 for a new boiler + installation, 32years, if you use 10000kwh/annum = £700, saving £143, pay back 16years and if you use 15000kwh/year (like I do) = £1050/year, saving £215, pay back 10.7years. I'm sure someone can give far more accurate numbers than these but you get the rough idea, but doesn't take account of increasing fuel costs over the years.

I see where you get 20.45% from, but I don't think that's right. Using your figures, should be 1/0.7-1/0.88 = 29.22%*gas cost. But still likely to be long payback time!

 

[StephenStephen]

You might want to consider changing to a cheaper gas supplier

 

[camerart]

You might want to consider changing to a cheaper gas supplier

Hi S,
I've never changed before, and it seems daunting.
I even missed the fix that was possible a couple of days ago.
I'll perhaps look into it.
Thanks, C.

 

[Johntheo5]

I see where you get 20.45% from, but I don't think that's right. Using your figures, should be 1/0.7-1/0.88 = 29.22%*gas cost. But still likely to be long payback time!

You might be right but if you look at this way,
Say heating demand 10000kwh, gas demand @ 70% boiler effic. = 10000/0.7, 14286kwh, gas demand at 88% effic. 10000/0.88, 11365kwh, fuel saving, 14286-11365, 2921kwh, saving 100*2921/14286, 20.45%?

I think you should have divided 0.292208 by 1.428567 to give 0.2045, 20.45%?.

 

[StephenStephen]

Hi S,
I've never changed before, and it seems daunting.
I even missed the fix that was possible a couple of days ago.
I'll perhaps look into it.
Thanks, C.

Octopus flexible is about 6.5p a kWh just now.
If you do decide to use Octopus - you might want to have a look for a referral code to get £50 off your bill.

 

[fixitflav]

You might be right but if you look at this way,
Say heating demand 10000kwh, gas demand @ 70% boiler effic. = 10000/0.7, 14286kwh, gas demand at 88% effic. 10000/0.88, 11365kwh, fuel saving, 14286-11365, 2921kwh, saving 100*2921/14286, 20.45%?

I think you should have divided 0.292208 by 1.428567 to give 0.2045, 20.45%?.

Yes, you're right! I was looking at it the wrong way round.
Another way of looking at it - if the bill for gas supplied is 10000kWh/yr, at 70% efficiency, heat into the house is 7000kWh. At 88% efficiency, heat into the house is 8800kWh, so for the same heat into the house, gas input can be reduced in ratio 70/88 = 79.55%, a reduction of 20.45%

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Hi S,
I've never changed before, and it seems daunting.

Nowt much to it. Just go on an energy comparison site, Money Saving Expert is a good one, fill in your details, plus gas and electric consumption. It will then suggest your cheapest supplier, plus several others. Pick which ever one suits you, you can then sign up via the site, or go to direct to the energy company to sign up.

I'm paying considerably less than the CAP, since switching to Octopus, then switching to their Tracker tariff. Their Tracker, for both E&G, varies from day to day, fixed cost for 24 hours, but always less than the CAP, quite often considerably less.

Here is a referral to sign up to Octopus - https://share.octopus.energy/jade-light-417

You get £50 off your first bill, using the above link, I also get £50 of my bill, and a good company to deal with.

 

[camerart]

Nowt much to it. Just go on an energy comparison site, Money Saving Expert is a good one, fill in your details, plus gas and electric consumption. It will then suggest your cheapest supplier, plus several others. Pick which ever one suits you, you can then sign up via the site, or go to direct to the energy company to sign up.

I'm paying considerably less than the CAP, since switching to Octopus, then switching to their Tracker tariff. Their Tracker, for both E&G, varies from day to day, fixed cost for 24 hours, but always less than the CAP, quite often considerably less.

Here is a referral to sign up to Octopus - https://share.octopus.energy/jade-light-417

You get £50 off your first bill, using the above link, I also get £50 of my bill, and a good company to deal with.

Hi H,
I tried your link, and it looks interesting. I'll dig deeper, thanks.
C

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I tried your link, and it looks interesting. I'll dig deeper, thanks.

If you decided to go with Octopus - once with them, you then need to ask to go on the Tracker tariff, but smart meters are essential.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Hi H,
I tried your link, and it looks interesting. I'll dig deeper, thanks.
C

Well worth digging deeper. The minimum I paid recently, on the 19th Oct was 13.83p for E; 5.2p for gas. The maximum recently was 22.63p, 5.56p. Both figures, well below the CAP price, that almost everyone else is paying. The present CAP is E - 24.50p and G - 6.24p, per Kwh.

Octopus announce what the cost will be, late the day before, then the price stated, is what you are charged for the entire 24 hours, midnight, through to midnight. You could, if you were so minded, delay doing the washing, until the rates are cheaper, but even without making such adaptions, the average price on tracker, saves you quite a lot. Then every so often, they announce an hour's worth of free electric, use just as much as you like, for free.

You can transfer to the Tracker, almost immediately you join Octopus, and come back off to a normal tariff within two weeks of asking, but if you come off, you cannot go back on the Tracker, for 6 months.

Octopus base Tracker, on the wholesale costs of each energy, the spot prices for each day, which it potentially could increase to be higher than the CAP - the slight risk you take, but in the year I have been on Tracker, it has never approached even close to the CAP. Basically, Octopus pass some of the risk onto you, in exchange for which, you get cheaper prices, much cheaper prices.

 

[camerart]

Nowt much to it. Just go on an energy comparison site, Money Saving Expert is a good one, fill in your details, plus gas and electric consumption. It will then suggest your cheapest supplier, plus several others. Pick which ever one suits you, you can then sign up via the site, or go to direct to the energy company to sign up.

I'm paying considerably less than the CAP, since switching to Octopus, then switching to their Tracker tariff. Their Tracker, for both E&G, varies from day to day, fixed cost for 24 hours, but always less than the CAP, quite often considerably less.

Here is a referral to sign up to Octopus - https://share.octopus.energy/jade-light-417

You get £50 off your first bill, using the above link, I also get £50 of my bill, and a good company to deal with.

Hi H,
I tried, but there's a problem, should get your dosh before Christmas
C

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I tried, but there's a problem, should get your dosh before Christmas
C

Well done!

Problem, what problem?

Here is the most recent tracker pricing graph, dotted lines are the CAP prices, which most people are having to pay. Up and down solid line below them, the Tracker cost, for electric and gas. The Tracker is quite high at the moment, due to the lack of wind to blow the wind generators around, and the lack of solar power due to little sunlight.

Now get some Smart Meters installed, Then ask to be moved to the Tracker, ASAP, to start saving. I think I heard that once you apply for the Smart Meters to be installed, they can put you on the Tracker Tariff, but calculating your each days consumption somehow, until they get actual readings. Best talk to Octopus about it..

https://octopriceuk.vercel.app/tracker is useful to show you these cost graphs....