Get power to gazebo for lighting

[tractor-pete]

I have a small gazebo that I want to hang 40 led festoon lights on and maybe 4 small tree lights.

I have a small consumer unit in our annexe with master breaker (MK5500s) only 2 breakers (B32/5932s sockets & B6/5906 lights).

I'm going to use 25m of SWR armoured cable clipped to a solid fence. I assume I imagine 1.5mm 3-core will work, but happy to go with 2.5mm 3-core just in case... make sense?

At the switch end I'm going to have 1 x wifi-socket (for maybe a radio, etc) and 1 x wifi switch which I will permanent wire in a 240/12V festoon lights.

My question is, what do I need at both ends?

Do i need RCDs and fused isolator switches at either end?

Thanks

 

[JohnW2]

....only 2 breakers (B32/5932s lights & B6/5906 sockets).

You've got that the wrong way around.

Kind Regards, John

 

[tractor-pete]

Given I can't add another breaker into the consumer unit, I guess my only option is to take a fused spur off the ring main at the consumer unit?

Is it enough that there is an RCD on the main consumer unit in the house... and this is in the garage?

Should I upgrade the master breaker in the garage to an RCD one?

 

[ericmark]

My problem is to find some thing which will plug into a water resistant socket the normal socket used will not allow the use of controllers. I do use smart adaptors indoors but outdoors I have used smart bulbs as they fit in the carriage lamps with no problem.

The other option is to supply the socket with a smart adaptor, my outdoor socket is plugged in indoors so easy enough to use the adaptor indoors, but I want the second outlet for other items, so not so easy.

Clearly an outdoor supply does need RCD protection, but with my home all outlets are already RCD protected with the exception of the boiler. I tried using a RCD FCU and it kept tripping, it did not trip the RCBO so assume down to the supply being from an inverter and I may need type A or F which local supplier did not have.

Using a grid switch you can have a row of 4 fuses so you can add protection without going into the consumer unit, but before adding decorative devices you should be ensuring the protective devices are in place, I went for the all RCBO consumer unit, there are other methods.

But we have no idea what you have, where I work the festoon lighting is all 110 volt (55-0-55) which maybe is not the best option, as it also means not RCD protected. I keep away from the electrics as I know I would condemn most of what they have.

 

[JohnW2]

I have a small gazebo that I want to hang 40 led festoon lights on and maybe 4 small tree lights. .... I have a small consumer unit in our annexe with master breaker (MK5500s) only 2 breakers (B32/5932s sockets & B6/5906 lights). ... I'm going to use 25m of SWR armoured cable clipped to a solid fence. I assume I imagine 1.5mm 3-core will work, but happy to go with 2.5mm 3-core just in case... make sense? ... At the switch end I'm going to have 1 x wifi-socket (for maybe a radio, etc) and 1 x wifi switch which I will permanent wire in a 240/12V festoon lights.

If that's really all the loads you would have (or ever would have) in the gazebo, you could probably feed it directly from the B6 MCB in your annex CU (6A being the lighting circuit, not as you wrote).

At the other extreme, to get more power availability at the gazebo, you could do the same from the B32 (sockets) MCB, but you would then need cable fatter than 2.5mm² (since it would be an 'unfused spur' from the origin of the existing circuit).

The compromise 'half-way house, which you go on to mention, would be to feed it from the B32 MCB via a 13A FCU, which could then use 2.5mm² (quite possibly 1.5mm²) cable (i.e. an 'fused spur' from the origin of the existing circuit).

In any of these cases, you will probably not be able satisfactorily terminate SWA cable into your small annexe CU (or ionto sockets at the other end), so you will need to terminate it in some sort of box (using an appropriate SWA gland), and connect from there to the CU in ordinary twin+earth cable - and something similar, in reverse, at the gazebo end.

Kind Regards, John

 

[tractor-pete]

I think I'm going to add a Wifi Switch and then hard wire the lights from that. I presume the lights will be 240V and hopefully have a waterproof transformer.

It would be better to have an RCD built into the mini consumer unit.

Can I just replace the main breaker with an RCD one? Or do I need to add another block? Or just replace the whole consumer unit?

 

[tractor-pete]

At the other extreme, to get more power availability at the gazebo, you could do the same from the B32 (sockets) MCB, but you would then need cable fatter than 2.5mm² (since it would be an 'unfused spur' from the origin of the existing circuit).

What size cable would I need for that? Presume to potentially carry the full 32A of the Breaker.

 

[JohnW2]

I think I'm going to add a Wifi Switch and then hard wire the lights from that. I presume the lights will be 240V and hopefully have a waterproof transformer.

I'm not sure that I fully understand what you are saying. Could you perhaps be a little more explicit?

It would be better to have an RCD built into the mini consumer unit. ... Can I just replace the main breaker with an RCD one? Or do I need to add another block? Or just replace the whole consumer unit?

Yes, you could simply replace the 'Main Switch' with an RCD. In fact, that's how a many/most mini CUs ('garage CUs etc.) come. Strictly speaking, you should use an RCD of the appropriate make (same make as the CU itself)

However,m what is this mini-RCD fed from. If it's supply is already RCD-protected (e.g. if it is coming from an RCD-protected breake in another CU, then you don't need a second one in the mini CU.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

What size cable would I need for that? Presume to potentially carry the full 32A of the Breaker.

Indeed. That would probably mean 4mm² cable.

Kind Regards, John

 

[tractor-pete]

I've decided to take a fused spur off the Socket ring main in the garage.
I've ordered an external Fused Spur with RCD.

British General IP66 13A Weatherproof Outdoor Switched Passive Fused Spur - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. 13A. Switched fused connection unit. RCD protection against the risk of electric shocks. Multiple cable entries and high impact resistance. FREE next day delivery available, free collection in 1 minute.

www.screwfix.com

I'm also ordered a double smart socket to attach at the gazebo end.

One thing that's worrying me, is that the Festoon lights I've ordered (ConnectPro LED Festoon lights) run on 240V with a rectifier which converts it to DC.

I just read that this RCD is a Type AC... and therefore only detects leaking AC current... but how will that work if the 240V DC current in the LED lights.

This site, suggests I would need a Type B RCD in that case

RCD Types | Type AC, Type A & Type B | PTT

There are different types of RCDs available & all have different functions. Learn what each one does so you can select the right type for your application. Read more.

www.proactivetechnicaltraining.co.uk

 

[tractor-pete]

Oh maybe RCD Type B is for 3 phase, so perhaps I need RCD Type A (AC & pulsating DC).

Although does this matter, if the festoon lights aren't actually earthed, as they are likely double insulated (as I read elsewhere)

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I've decided to take a fused spur off the Socket ring main in the garage.
I've ordered an external Fused Spur with RCD.

Whilst appreciating that is intended as an external unit, I would suggest you mount that indoors, where it is much less likely to suffer water ingress.

 

[tractor-pete]

Fair point but thought I'd mount it outside so I don't have the chase the internal wall and the CU is against the external wall so and easy drill through.

 

[tractor-pete]

Ah! Yeah. See you're point.

I guess the only additional reason would be that it trips faster than the one on the house CU... For convenience... But perhaps no safer

 

[bernardgreen]

You dot need or want that RCD unit at all. You said in post3 that you already had one in the house CU.

Which means a fault in the gazebo could suddenly and without warning plunge the house into darkness. A hazard to people in the house.

Feed the cable to the gazebo from its own RCD and MCB ( or an RCBO ) in the CU in the house to avoid that hazard,