Getting a good fixing in crumbly walls and R Kem II?

[Lower]

OP said it’s brick .

Did he?

 

[Keitai]

Is the wall you're drilling into an internal stud wall?

What you describe sounds like you're drilling through the plaster into a void behind it. Lath and plaster walls are a pain to get a decent fixing into. If you get a screw directly into a lath you might be ok for light weight loads. Otherwise you're going to be into opening up the wall to fix a length of timber between the studs that you can then plaster over and fix into.

Think you're right. Lath and plaster. 100 Yr house. And no it wasn't brick I was drilling into. And a void behind it like u said. Is it just a case of deeper drilling, bigger screws, plug in plug and hope? What u suggested is a bit too much.

By the way, it's the wall with the neighbour, so would there be another two brick widths after the void?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

By the way, it's the wall with the neighbour, so would there be another two brick widths after the void?

On a Victorian or Edwardian terrace house it may well be either a single thickness of brick between you and them, or a double. In my part of the world you don't often find a cavity in party walls simply because the cavity is there to keep the inside of the wall dry and there's no need for it between dwellings; our outside walls are stone whilst the inner skin is brick with a cavity - but our partition walls are double thickness brick only - no cavity. As it happens I've come across false lath and plaster stud walls across masonry recesses before now, often where buildings have been altered and something like a new staircase has been installed which required a straight wall. If it's one of those the masonry could be 3in to 2ft back from the visible face of the wall and it would require an exploratory hole to determine what the possibilities are

If it turns out that you are dealing with lath and plaster you'll be better off mounting your coat hooks onto a timber/MDF/plywood pattress. By judicious use of an awl it should be possible to find one or even two studs where your pattress is going to go, in which case the pattress can be pilot drilled and countersunk then screwed through through the lath and plaster to the studs. Even if you cn only find one it should still be possible to fix to that then attach the rest to the wall using a combination of construction adhesive (GripFill) and skew nailing through the pattress and into the laths to get a fix (oval nails, these can be punched under with a hammer and nail set then the holes filled). Be careful not to nail above electrical switches and sockets as there can be vertical cables above or below them. Gripfill needs to be left 24 hours before any load is applied.

 

[Lower]

Think you're right. Lath and plaster. 100 Yr house. And no it wasn't brick I was drilling into. And a void behind it like u said. Is it just a case of deeper drilling, bigger screws, plug in plug and hope? What u suggested is a bit too much.

By the way, it's the wall with the neighbour, so would there be another two brick widths after the void?

Try drilling a small pilot hole for a wood screw. You should be able to feel if you hit a lath. If you hit a lath you can then screw directly into it. If you don’t hit a lath, try going up half an inch and drill again. Laths will take light loads like a coat hook.

 

[Keitai]

It's actually a bunch of coat hooks mounted on some wood with two fixings either end

When going into soft material u always set to drill mode don't you? Never hammer.

 

[Keitai]

On a Victorian or Edwardian terrace house it may well be either a single thickness of brick between you and them, or a double. In my part of the world you don't often find a cavity in party walls simply because the cavity is there to keep the inside of the wall dry and there's no need for it between dwellings; our outside walls are stone whilst the inner skin is brick with a cavity - but our partition walls are double thickness brick only - no cavity. As it happens I've come across false lath and plaster stud walls across masonry recesses before now, often where buildings have been altered and something like a new staircase has been installed which required a straight wall. If it's one of those the masonry could be 3in to 2ft back from the visible face of the wall and it would require an exploratory hole to determine what the possibilities are

If it turns out that you are dealing with lath and plaster you'll be better off mounting your coat hooks onto a timber/MDF/plywood pattress. By judicious use of an awl it should be possible to find one or even two studs where your pattress is going to go, in which case the pattress can be pilot drilled and countersunk then screwed through through the lath and plaster to the studs. Even if you cn only find one it should still be possible to fix to that then attach the rest to the wall using a combination of construction adhesive (GripFill) and skew nailing through the pattress and into the laths to get a fix (oval nails, these can be punched under with a hammer and nail set then the holes filled). Be careful not to nail above electrical switches and sockets as there can be vertical cables above or below them. Gripfill needs to be left 24 hours before any load is applied.

Just googled an awl. Wouldn't an electronic stud detector do it?

 

[foxhole]

Think you're right. Lath and plaster. 100 Yr house. And no it wasn't brick I was drilling into. And a void behind it like u said. Is it just a case of deeper drilling, bigger screws, plug in plug and hope? What u suggested is a bit too much.

By the way, it's the wall with the neighbour, so would there be another two brick widths after the void?

Party walls are not lath and plaster.
Really peeing in the wind unless you establish what the walll construction actually is.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Just googled an awl. Wouldn't an electronic stud detector do it?

Maybe, but in general they are completely unreliable. A rare earth magnet (which will "stick" onto the wall where there are tacks holding the laths onto the studs) is more reliable on lath and plaster, TBH

 

[Keitai]

Maybe, but in general they are completely unreliable. A rare earth magnet (which will "stick" onto the wall where there are tacks holding the laths onto the studs) is more reliable on lath and plaster, TBH

Have got links for these two tools?

Sticking holes all over the place doesn't sound good but u know what you're talking about.

What do you think of electric pipe and electric detectors?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Have got links for these two tools

Google "rare earth magnets". Mine came from a scrapped hard disc drive and cost nowt. Awls come from any tool shop, or even a hardware stall on the local market

Sticking holes all over the place doesn't sound good but u know what you're talking about

If it really is a stud wall then the stud centres are probably going to be around 400mm or 16in, certainly in houses from about the 1870s onwards. Unless the skirtings have been fixed to grounds (generally associated with extremely tall, multiple part skirtings), they will been nailed through into the studs meaning that you can often pick-up the positions of the studs by looking for where the nails are or using the magnet to find them if they have been filled..... That will require very few awl "guesses". Of course, once you've picked-up one stud the next one will be around 400mm away and you can confirm the position by first locating the nails in the skirting

What do you think of electric pipe and electric detectors?

Same as I think about stud detectors