Goverment Tracker

[Pensdown]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4610877.stm

This one worries me a lot. When any government plans to put tracking devices in all cars it's time to worry about their ethics.

If it goes the same way as CCTV which was sold to us on the premise it would “reduce crime” and is now being used for such minor offences as parking, here a few other thinks the tracker could be used for;

1. Speeding. Every time you use your car your speed would be logged during the entire journey making speed cameras a thing of the past.
2. All company car/van use would be logged so the Inland Revenue would have a field day.
3. Every government department including the police will know when and where you’ve been. This already applies to anyone using the Ouster card on public transport in London.

Since the introduction of CCTV various stupid laws have been introduced and at the moment Ken livingston is planning to ban jay walking in London. Will he use CCTV to catch offenders? Of course he will.

So if new stupid motoring laws are introduced will the government use the tracker to enforce them?

 

[Steve]

1. speeding - only a problem if you speed, pensdown.

2. dont they already have a field day? whats wrong with company car / van use anyway? what will they discover that they dont know already?

3. true, but the same could be said of CCTV in large cities. I can be followed from the town centre to the end of my street, using Doncaster council's CCTV system alone, there are other private cameras on shops that could track me. But this is only a problem if i have done something wrong. I dont mind, it makes me feel secure.

The way i see it, the new "box" will be used to charge us fairly for using the roads, it will be a lot fairer system than car tax discs, lets face it. And it could also lead to a decrease in petrol tax. I have no problem with the system, because i am a relatively low mileage driver, i dont speed, and i dont commit (many) traffic offences.

It could be used to see people who have stopped on the motorway, where a police officer can be despatched to see what the matter is.

And it would be the ultimate deterrent to car theft. This is the number one reason to fit a box like this to your car. Car thefts would decrease to zero, if the boxes are fitted solidly and discreetly enough.

 

[Adam_151]

So is my car in my garage, or is it just my black box in there sitting on top of a spare battery?

 

[Steve]

So is my car in my garage, or is it just my black box in there sitting on top of a spare battery?

tut tut. like i said, they would have to be fixed securely and only removable by government officials, police etc.

 

[paulbrown]

crafty1289 wrote,

The way i see it, the new "box" will be used to charge us fairly for using the roads, it will be a lot fairer system than car tax discs, lets face it. And it could also lead to a decrease in petrol tax. I have no problem with the system, because i am a relatively low mileage driver, i dont speed, and i dont commit (many) traffic offences

.
RFL revenue already exceeds the cost of road building and maintenance.

Fuel duty is in effect an irrelevant red herring. The lower rate charges will apply when most of us are in bed or in area's where few people live. In the real world even low mileage users will be worse off. The premium rate times will be when people are travelling to and from their place of work. People have to make a living and the exchequer will take full advantage of it.

and i dont commit (many) traffic offences

You probably commit as many minor offences as the rest of us but have got away with them. This could be because you have not been seen or the police have exercised discretion, which they often do. The new system will be like speed camera's where the motorist is guilty until he/she proves otherwise, which is rare.

Spying on your movements infringes your rights and no politician has a mandate to do this. If they want this mandate they should ask for it at a general election.

This goverment are a bigger threat to our civil liberties than any terrorists or previous government have ever been. They are serious control freaks.

 

[keyplayer]

1. speeding - only a problem if you speed, pensdown.

2. dont they already have a field day? whats wrong with company car / van use anyway? what will they discover that they dont know already?

3. true, but the same could be said of CCTV in large cities. I can be followed from the town centre to the end of my street, using Doncaster council's CCTV system alone, there are other private cameras on shops that could track me. But this is only a problem if i have done something wrong. I dont mind, it makes me feel secure.

The way i see it, the new "box" will be used to charge us fairly for using the roads, it will be a lot fairer system than car tax discs, lets face it. And it could also lead to a decrease in petrol tax. I have no problem with the system, because i am a relatively low mileage driver, i dont speed, and i dont commit (many) traffic offences.

It could be used to see people who have stopped on the motorway, where a police officer can be despatched to see what the matter is.

And it would be the ultimate deterrent to car theft. This is the number one reason to fit a box like this to your car. Car thefts would decrease to zero, if the boxes are fitted solidly and discreetly enough.

This post demonstrates great naivety.

 

[Pensdown]

Spying on your movements infringes your rights and no politician has a mandate to do this. If they want this mandate they should ask for it at a general election.

I agree 100% but I can't see it happening. I feel sure it will be sold to the general public as a green solution to traffic management and most will buy into it

This goverment are a bigger threat to our civil liberties than any terrorists or previous government have ever been. They are serious control freaks.

I have to agree again. There are fewer terrorist attacks on the UK mainland now than ever before but under the disguise of controlling the threat this government has introduced one of the most drachonian laws ever. The true purpose of this law was demonstrated at their own conference.

Why do people fall for it?

 

[Slogger]

yet another way to STEALTH tax us


where theres a will theres a way and these things will be very easy to fool into thinking your either not moving or your doing the legal limit always


i would never agree to this even to the point of imprisionment F**K the government

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Why do people fall for it?

Here's your answer:

But this is only a problem if i have done something wrong. I dont mind, it makes me feel secure.

 

[johnb80]

I'm with crafty1289 on all of this, only the guilty have anything to fear, civil liberties is a load of hogwash and is used as a shield. Many times the value of CCTV systems has been proved tracking criminals.

Regards - J

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Why do people fall for it?

Here's your answer:

only the guilty have anything to fear

 

[Adam_151]

The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others.

- Thomas Jefferson

There are many minor things people do, that harm no one, but given these black boxes would be traceable and given the penchant of governments for wanting to make money... you can guess full well what is going to happen

Things like 80 down the dual carriageway where there arn't any speed camaras, parking on yellow lines in the dead of night, driving down roads that are meant to be closed (very minor roadworks closed down for the night)

Yes things like that might not happen straight away, but certainly with our current government the following quote seems quite relevant here:

There are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.

- James Madison

 

[Steve]

only the guilty have anything to fear

exactly. they aren't going to spy on someone who isn't wanted by the law, are they? What would be the point? And its not like there will be records kept of everyone's journeys ever, that would take up too much computer storage. I expect the computers will simply count up the miles, and if the police need to see any particular, they will need special permission to access the satellite data.

To be honest, i doubt very much that the current route / activity info will be used to pick up on minor offences. It would be way too complex to work in this way - it would need a whole army of programmers to draw on every yellow line and its hours of operation, every bus lane and its hours, every closed road and when its opened, and then to programme the computer to pick up on offences such as this. You get the picture. Its a massive, near-impossible task.

And satellite technology accuracy has yet to prove itself to me. My dad's tomtom thinks im driving on the dual carriageway near my house, when im driving on the small road parellel to it (which IS on the tomtom). how will it pick up on even smaller things like bus lanes, when it cant even see which road im driving on??? if i cant trust it, then no govt. agency has the right to trust it for fighting crime either.

 

[Adam_151]

if i cant trust it, then no govt. agency has the right to trust it for fighting crime either.

Indeed true, but things like that get brushed under the carpet... you get caught and swear you weren't doing whatever it was, then chances are it'll get you not very far as the evidence from the system will be trusted highly and no one is going to publicly admit the system is floored.

If you think they are moral enough not to introduce a system and make false claims about how good it is... then I suggest a look at in the direction of the secure ID card system they want... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/08/04/e-passport_hack_attack/

 

[Pensdown]

1. speeding - only a problem if you speed, pensdown.

Very true, but would you like a system in place that could monitor EVERY mile you drove? Everyone who drives speeds at some time or another

2. dont they already have a field day? whats wrong with company car / van use anyway? what will they discover that they dont know already?

At the moment company car and van drivers can avoid tax by not using the car/van for private mileage. With a tracking system the IR could see who's doing the sneaky trip to the shops and TAX them for it.

3. true, but the same could be said of CCTV in large cities. I can be followed from the town centre to the end of my street, using Doncaster council's CCTV system alone, there are other private cameras on shops that could track me. But this is only a problem if i have done something wrong. I dont mind, it makes me feel secure.

How would you feel if your employer tracked your every move at work and recorded all of your phone conversations? Would you feel secure or spied on?

The way i see it, the new "box" will be used to charge us fairly for using the roads, it will be a lot fairer system than car tax discs, lets face it. And it could also lead to a decrease in petrol tax. I have no problem with the system, because i am a relatively low mileage driver, i dont speed, and i dont commit (many) traffic offences.

Do you call around £1.00/motorway mile in peek times fair? My total today would be around £ 130.00 and thats a normal day

And it would be the ultimate deterrent to car theft. This is the number one reason to fit a box like this to your car. Car thefts would decrease to zero, if the boxes are fitted solidly and discreetly enough.

I'm sure the tracker would be cracked by car thiefs in no time at all because most security systems that are introduced by governments are normally flawed