Grand National

[ellal]

No its not nice to see a horse die, but these horses wouldn't even exist if it wasnt for racing.

So it's ok to bring an animal into being, simply so it can sometimes be literally thrashed to death?

The fences at the races now are much smaller and flexible in give to the horses.

And yet still they die...two fences were 'bypassed' yesterday because of (according to the BBC) 'obstacles'. Erm, I believe that should have been dead horses! Why were they ashamed to say that?

(and its 33 dead at aintree alone in the last decade!)

And it's not just the fences - many just drop dead through exhaustion...Yesterday's winner (amongst others) had to be given emergency oxygen at the end!

They are very well looked after and cared for and have a great life.

They are well cared for (in theory) only when they are making money!...And I believe that in order to train a horse, it must first be 'broken' - A euphemism for 'enslaved'! So does it have a 'good life', or is it conditioned?

They are bred for a single purpose, and when they no longer can achieve that purpose they are (as you point out) often abused and get a horrible death...

(only a very few get to sh*g themselves silly afterwards in order to continue the 'bloodline'... )

Personally I wish the Grand National Disgrace went the way of other 'blood sports'!

 

[Servotech]

Truely an horrific national yesterday as Omais and Dooneys Gate both met tragic ends to their life.

However, their needs to be a risk factor in some sports for them to appeal to human beings it's just the way we are.

Red Rum won three Grand Nationals and he was set to run in the 1978 national when he was withdrawn due to a supposedly injury.
In reality he had so popular he was too much of a risk to the horse reacing media to ever run in another national.

 

[snico]

So it's ok to bring an animal into being, simply so it can sometimes be literally thrashed to death?

The same things can be said about cows, sheep, pigs etc etc....they live in horrid cramped conditions, are fed steroids and then slaughtered for us humans!

And yet still they die...two fences were 'bypassed' yesterday because of (according to the BBC) 'obstacles'. Erm, I believe that should have been dead horses! Why were they ashamed to say that?

(and its 33 dead at aintree alone in the last decade!)

And it's not just the fences - many just drop dead through exhaustion...Yesterday's winner (amongst others) had to be given emergency oxygen at the end

The bypasses have been there for a while. You dont hear people complain about horses dying at other races through out the year.

I agree its sad that some horses do die, but people who complain it should be banned need to wake up!, there are far worse things happening to animals in this country for human benefit than horse racing

 

[yaleguy3]

I can totally take horse racing or leave it.

The only reason the horses die is because of the betting.
If there was no prize money and no betting the events simply would not exist.

I can see why horse racing historically may have had a place as breeders sought to prove their horses were superior to others and thus enhance the stallions rewards.
Horses got people from A to B so there was certainly interest in what made a quick horse.
Now of course we race cars and occasionally kill drivers instead. However that is a choice option for the man behind the wheel.
How many of the horses at the national ever made one single decision about their future?

Of course it's a tradition but strange the outcry over killing foxes which are actually classed as vermin and the way we look the other way when the horses die.
The National seems to average 3 horses killed each year.
Its only ONE race not a whole seasons racing...!!!
Those odds are awful.

 

[AndrewSchofield]

The National seems to average 3 horses killed each year.
Its only ONE race not a whole seasons racing...!!!
Those odds are awful.

Where do you get an average of 3 horses killed in the Grand National?

Ellal said above that 33 horses have died at AINTREE in the last decade (i've no idea where that came from either - but I assume it was based on fact?). Aintree holds 9 racedays each year, each with around 7 races - that's 630 races in the last decade. With an average of 10 horses per race (the average is probably higher than that) thats 6300 horses and 33 have died - 0.5% of them - admittedly a sad fact but not exactly 'awful odds'?

I am a fan of horseracing, and obviously it is not nice and even quite upsetting when horses die, but accidents happen. The horses in the grand national have to acheive a certain level of quality to be allowed to enter and they are all checked by vets before being allowed to race. measures are in place to ensure safety of all involved at racecourses, including the horses, but sometimes that isn't enough. I'm lucky enough to be able to say that i've been going racing for over ten years (including the Grand National on 3 occassions) and none of the horses have ever died whilst I've been there. Obviously its high profile when horses die in the big races such as the Grand National, but there are 100s of horses racing almost every day of the year around the UK and the huge, huge majority of these horses complete the race absolutly fine.

As for the BBC 'glossing over' the fact that they had died, I don't think there's little else they could do. The grand national is raced in the middle of the afternoon and its almost certain that a lot of children were watching. I think that any adult watching wouldn't have needed the commentator to point out that the horses had died and that children watching would be better left in ignorant bliss. With regard to Dooney's gate, it wasn't even evident as the horses passed Beecher's for the second time that the horse had died, so it would definately have been wrong for the commentator to say so.

I think 'emergency oxygen' is a bit sensationalist too, the race organisers said at 8.30am that all horses would be given oxygen and water as a precaution straight after all the races due to the (relatively) high temperatures expected. This was pre-planned and given 'just-in-case' rather than because the horses specifically needed it. For the first time the jockey demounted the horse immediately after the race so the saddle could be removed and the horses doused with water to cool them.

 

[LastMagicBean]

I am a fan of horseracing, and obviously it is not nice and even quite upsetting when horses die, but accidents happen.

The do-gooders are gonna love that one.

 

[AndrewSchofield]

I am a fan of horseracing, and obviously it is not nice and even quite upsetting when horses die, but accidents happen.

The do-gooders are gonna love that one.

Nope, i'm sure they wont, but that doesn't stop it being true! A couple of weeks ago a woman was killed near here after coming off a motorbike and ending up under the wheels of a lorry. That lorry driver could be the safest driver in the world but there was nothing he could have done differently to prevent that from happening, and i'm sure he's been seriously affected mentally by the accident. There are a great many things in life that we as humans do that are dangerous, we do lots of things to make these things as safe as possible, but no matter what precautions you take, accidents will still happen in all aspects of life from time to time. Similarly, Peter Toole didn't expect to end up in a coma when he took to his horse at Aintree on Saturday, and i'm sure he did all he could to make sure he didn't. Is anyone bothered that he's ill in hospital? Or does he deserve all he gets because he's involved in horseracing?

 

[LastMagicBean]

Similarly, Peter Toole didn't expect to end up in a coma when he took to his horse at Aintree on Saturday, and i'm sure he did all he could to make sure he didn't. Is anyone bothered that he's ill in hospital? Or does he deserve all he gets because he's involved in horseracing?

Very interesting point.
Just imagine the uproar about the jockeys welfare, if he was a little somalian asylum seeker.

There would be hell to pay.
All the do-gooders would be on the case in a flash.

 

[AndrewSchofield]

The National seems to average 3 horses killed each year.
Its only ONE race not a whole seasons racing...!!!
Those odds are awful.

Where do you get an average of 3 horses killed in the Grand National?

Ellal said above that 33 horses have died at AINTREE in the last decade (i've no idea where that came from either - but I assume it was based on fact?). Aintree holds 9 racedays each year, each with around 7 races - that's 630 races in the last decade. With an average of 10 horses per race (the average is probably higher than that) thats 6300 horses and 33 have died - 0.5% of them - admittedly a sad fact but not exactly 'awful odds'?

I've found the stat now - it is just taking into account the Grand National meeting (all three days, not just the one race) at Aintree since (and including) the 2000 meeting and in that time 33 horses died. Over the three days this year, 317 horses ran, assuming that is common of every year, 3804 horses have run at the Grand National meeting since 2000 so that works out at 0.86% of the horses that have run. Higher than originally calculated, but still very low.

 

[ellal]

I've found the stat now - it is just taking into account the Grand National meeting (all three days, not just the one race) at Aintree since (and including) the 2000 meeting and in that time 33 horses died. Over the three days this year, 317 horses ran, assuming that is common of every year, 3804 horses have run at the Grand National meeting since 2000 so that works out at 0.86% of the horses that have run. Higher than originally calculated, but still very low.

But why do you think that is 'very low'?...imagine the outcry at the human casualty rate of the 10,000m hurdles based on those figures..

The grand national is raced in the middle of the afternoon and its almost certain that a lot of children were watching. I think that any adult watching wouldn't have needed the commentator to point out that the horses had died and that children watching would be better left in ignorant bliss.

So it's ok to keep our kids from knowing the truth then?...That's how barbaric practices are allowed to continue!

I think 'emergency oxygen' is a bit sensationalist too, the race organisers said at 8.30am that all horses would be given oxygen and water as a precaution straight after all the races due to the (relatively) high temperatures expected. This was pre-planned and given 'just-in-case' rather than because the horses specifically needed it. For the first time the jockey demounted the horse immediately after the race so the saddle could be removed and the horses doused with water to cool them.

Actually it's Because they would probably be forced into a dehydrated, exhausted and potentially cardiac arrest situation, due to being pushed beyond the limit....When a person races, he/she knows when they hit 'the wall' and then decides to take the risk - a horse is bullied beyond it unknowingly, only because of the money at stake!

Other horse racing nations and states in other 'civilised countries' have (as a first move hopefully) banned jumps because they have realised the cruelty of it.

Nope, i'm sure they wont, but that doesn't stop it being true! A couple of weeks ago a woman was killed near here after coming off a motorbike and ending up under the wheels of a lorry. That lorry driver could be the safest driver in the world but there was nothing he could have done differently to prevent that from happening, and i'm sure he's been seriously affected mentally by the accident. There are a great many things in life that we as humans do that are dangerous, we do lots of things to make these things as safe as possible, but no matter what precautions you take, accidents will still happen in all aspects of life from time to time.

If you could point out whether there have ever been any decision taking, motorbike riding/lorry driving equines, then I'd have to agree with you....

 

[noseall]

Tragic my ar se!

How many of you animal lovers weep when eating steak, lamb or pork.

We breed animals for work.

We breed animals for sport.

We breed animals for food.

Get over it. Animals die in their millions for us humans every day.

You can't find the slaughter of pigs acceptable and then weep when a pampered beast is killed doing what it enjoys.

Some people. F.F.S!

 

[ellal]

You can't find the slaughter of pigs acceptable and then weep when a pampered beast is killed doing what it enjoys.

You can of course provide conclusive proof that any horse really enjoys running the Grand national Disgrace?...

 

[LastMagicBean]

You can of course provide conclusive proof that any horse really enjoys running the Grand national Disgrace?...

Presumably followed by your conclusive proof that they don't ????

 

[misterdubya]

Omais

Sorry to be pedantic, but get your facts right, as it was Ornais that died. Shows how much attention you paid to the dead horses.

Mr. W.

 

[misterdubya]

You can of course provide conclusive proof that any horse really enjoys running the Grand national Disgrace?...

Presumably followed by your conclusive proof that they don't ????

So, you didnt see the loose horses refuse Beaches first time around? No, thought not.

Mr. W.