Hanging heavy chandelier (17kg) - something missing???

[Sukie123]

That's very helpful - thanks. I had three questions:

- what hook are you referring to? Do you mean the loop at the bottom of the cup that the chain is attached to? If so, I'm not sure it screws off the cup (It wouldn't shift with finger pressure). If I follow correctly, I don't think it needs to come off as the threaded tube comes out on its own but please do correct me. Here is a pic of the threaded tube undone from the cup:

- the second question is, do I need to bring the wires back down through the second hole? Can I just wire it all in the ceiling (in a junction box).

- lastly, how do I take links out the chain to shorten it? Would a hacksaw do the trick?

Thanks

 

[333rocky333]

Oh i see the hooks braised on the cup, not seperate, just do same but screw hook and cup on together.

As long as the connections are enclosed somehow they can go in the ceiling, as long as there acccesible still by removal of the light but normal practise is there uninclosed in the cup bit,

Yes you cut the links with hacksaw open with pliers and take off one or a section, the screw up link, is to asssist fitting too, as you need to spin the cup/hook about 10 times to tighten, which you cant do when its wired in, so you spin it on then rejoin the chain.
Solid link chain and screw up links are used as they are stronger than split link chain due to the weight of your fitting
You only need use 1 screw up link

Can you post pic of inside the cup

 

[Sukie123]

That's starting to make sense. A problem I might have if wiring in the ceiling void would be the separate earth wire from the plate might not have enough length to get up there. So I might have to bring the wires back down. Here are a couple of other photos of the cup as requested.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

That clip appeared much sooner that I thought it would

It appeared after I started and before I finished a post where I predicted it would soon appear.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Made a mess of that - logged onto the girlfriend's laptop which had her log-in details. But it's me, the original poster!

You can be honest here - you jumped the gun - you thought it was already the weekend which is when you are known as Nicole.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

That's exactly right in your description. But the metal threaded tube can only screw up approx 2-4mm past the plate before being flush with the ceiling I would think.

I see what you mean.

What I can't see is why you would precision engineer a hole in the plasterboard large enough for the flex to pass through but not large enough for the threaded tube. Nor how you could get that to work with a material like plasterboard.

I'm using the 100mm screws as I have a few left over from fixing the noggin. They are huge granted.

OK - fair enough. I don't instinctively think about having screws "left over", and not having thousands of screws in 20-30 different sizes to hand.

When screwed in, the threaded tube will be flush with the noggin - I'm guessing I could use a hole saw all the way through the noggin and given that I will have access then, I could tighten a bolt onto it?

Well, if you could you'd need a box spanner to get down to the nut.

Still in your court is the question of whether, when the rose is hard up to the ceiling, the threaded rod is far enough above the bracket for a locknut to fit. If it would be then ditch the noggin, replace it with a sheet of ply flush with the top of the plasterboard and held to the joists with battens, and a large hole in it to allow good access to the nut.

I could then also have the wires entering the ceiling void via this route too?

How else would you ever consider doing it, given that the flex runs through the threaded tube?

I have bought a wago lighting junction box too - I thought this was the belt and braces way of doing it (I will make the connections with wago lighting wire connectors). Let me know if you think otherwise.

That's fine, but it doesn't address the problem of the flying earth wire from the bracket.

Although - canvassing other opinions here...

I did say "That single earth wire should not be left unprotected in the ceiling void" but thinking about it, would that be OK if it were 4mm² or greater?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Are there any locknuts to go on the threaded rod either side of the ceiling bracket?

I'm trying to envisage how one on the underside of the bracket (which would work just like one above it, if you could get it tight) could actually be tightened before the installer decided it would be preferable to wrap the chain around his neck and kick the steps away...

 

[ban-all-sheds]

From what I can see the uppermost chain link unscrews, allowing 16.5kg (or thereabouts) to be removed from the equation of fixing the bracket to the ceiling and tightening up the rose. And I'm sure that the idea is that when it's nice and tight friction will stop the threaded tube from working loose. But if you can get a locknut on the top it would do no harm.

Once that is secured the rest of the light is hooked back on, and the upper link screwed back together. Only you know if you can do that single handed.

Then the flex is pushed up through the tube ready for connection.

As to whether you need to cut any links, that depends on how much you need to shorten the chain. In your photos I can see that there are at least two lower links which can be removed - however many there are, if that's not enough then you will have to cut some of the non-removable ones.

 

[bernardgreen]

There doesn't seem to be any way to lock nut the bracket that screws onto the bottom of the threaded rod. LokTite or similar woud be a good idea to prevent it rotating and coming loose.

Personally I would try to find a longer length of the hollow threaded rod that was long enough to reach above the top of the nogging. Then the chandelier can be assembled securely onto the rod with a lock nut to ensure the chain bracket could not become loose on the end of the threaded rod. Then pass the treaded rod up through the nogging and fit washer, nut and lock nut on the top of the noggin.

 

[ericmark]

I assume you screw the whole chandelier in the central hole from below but 17kg screwed a few mm into the center of that plate with no additional security just seems wrong? I could see scenarios where the whole thing could unscrew and crash to the ground quite easily.

I would agree with you to hold something which if it fell is heavy enough to kill on two wood screws is not really good enough. Wood screws to hold a bracket so it is a shearing force OK, but to rely on the threads holding that sort of weight is really not good. The bracket looks in the pictures flimsy to hold 17 kg and I would want nuts, bolts and washers for that weight.

Is it really that heavy or was the a decimal point missing? 37.5 pounds is what I would expect with the only fools and horses clip and you see how they unscrewed it and if it had not gone wrong would have held it.

 

[Sukie123]

Thanks for all of the help, cracked on with it this evening and just finished it. Pictures below of what I did. I would've ideally got a longer hollow threaded rod and fixed a lock nut but seems like that size was hard to find. I'm somewhat amazed Oka don't provide something to make this quirky setup more secure. Thanks again for the helpful replies.

 

[Iggifer]

Nice job. I wouldn't be too worried about that going anywhere.

 

[333rocky333]

That shouldnt go nowhere,10mm thread is sturdy and hopefully the bottom cup on at least 5 turns i assume, thats best having the connecters below, under the floor is NOT accesible and them connecters would be against the regs under the floor.
Nice to see the result, thanks

 

[ericmark]

That's a really good job. Should not go anywhere. Well done.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Can you swing on it?