Heating zone issue

[Onlydiy]

As there is no instruction in the manual to do so I assume it's doesn't need doing. and one of the reasons you have purchased an expensive unit.

Lol..I bought this expensive unit for it to work but guess was wrong. I tried that way but the boiler doesn't react, the valve opens and the pump starts but the boiler doesn't kick in. No clear instructions hence posted here. Any cheap wiring centre recommendations .
Maybe that's the last resort then!

 

[SUNRAY]

Lol..I bought this expensive unit for it to work but guess was wrong. I tried that way but the boiler doesn't react, the valve opens and the pump starts but the boiler doesn't kick in. No clear instructions hence posted here. Any cheap wiring centre recommendations .
Maybe that's the last resort then!

You wired it like this

and the boiler didn't fire? To be clear I show the orange connected to the same live as the boiler (swapping orange and grey of the valves will not matter)

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Rather than chucking wires in here and there you need to be a bit more analytical. What connections does your boiler have? Just live, neutral, earth or is there a 'call for heat' connection as well? Schematic please.
Yes you've bought a less than appropriate bit of kit and made a mess installing it

 

[SUNRAY]

Your photo and your sketch don't match

 

[SUNRAY]

Rather than chucking wires in here and there you need to be a bit more analytical. What connections does your boiler have? Just live, neutral, earth or is there a 'call for heat' connection as well? Schematic please.
Yes you've bought a less than appropriate bit of kit and made a mess installing it

To be fair it's not an inappropriate unit, probably what the average heating installer would install but it is OTT for just 2 circuits.

Yes it is a mess and it looks like the pump is not controlled by the UFH valve as shown in sketch.

 

[oldbutnotdead]

To be fair it's not an inappropriate unit, probably what the average heating installer would install but it is OTT for just 2 circuits.

Yes it is a mess and it looks like the pump is not controlled by the UFH valve as shown in sketch.

Looks as if there's a couple of relays on there, I'm wondering whether they are there to buffer the actuator feeds for zones 1-3, would explain why that boiler enable is volt free

 

[SUNRAY]

Looks as if there's a couple of relays on there, I'm wondering whether they are there to buffer the actuator feeds for zones 1-3, would explain why that boiler enable is volt free

Yes they are for the UFH pump and the boiler and operated via diodes from the SL of actuators etc, best I've been able to work out is this but I have no confidence it's accurate, especially the DHW valve contact terminals.

 

[Onlydiy]

I FIXED IT!

Feel so happy.

Yes, there is no doubt that the wiring centre instructions are incomplete, in fact, incorrect.

Sometimes, we are so much into the the jungle that don't see it, you need to come out of it to see it.

As I said before, the 2 valves had 2 thermostats, if both were on, when one was turned off the valve continued to operate even though the thermostats were off. This was because of the 2 orange wires from valve. The boiler enabler was being powered by the orange wire, so even though one of the orange wire had no current, the other orange wire had current, which returned the current to the valve ,that was suppose to be turn off, as it completed the circuit for that valve. This return of current was through the grey wire which was connected to the thermostats live wire. So when @SUNRAY Sent his diagram, it showed the organge wire being connected to the boilers live connection(grey and orange are reversible) but he was not sure how the UFh would fire the boiler as the stupid instruction didn't say. But due to this it struck me that if i connect the valve grey wires for both valves to the boilers live connection rather than thermostats live output, the reverse current from the orange wire would not go back to the valve and both valves would operate(turn off) independent of each other. and it worked. The only thing is the ufh pump and valve start together. There is no delay for the pump, i hope that is ok?

But thank you guys, thanks @SUNRAY and @oldbutnotdead, this definitely would not have been possible without this discussion and brainstorming with you guys. Amazing! Thanks a ton! And I feel obliged.

 

[SUNRAY]

I FIXED IT!

Feel so happy.

Yes, there is no doubt that the wiring centre instructions are incomplete, in fact, incorrect.

Sometimes, we are so much into the the jungle that don't see it, you need to come out of it to see it.

As I said before, the 2 valves had 2 thermostats, if both were on, when one was turned off the valve continued to operate even though the thermostats were off. This was because of the 2 orange wires from valve. The boiler enabler was being powered by the orange wire, so even though one of the orange wire had no current, the other orange wire had current, which returned the current to the valve ,that was suppose to be turn off, as it completed the circuit for that valve. This return of current was through the grey wire which was connected to the thermostats live wire. So when @SUNRAY Sent his diagram, it showed the organge wire being connected to the boilers live connection(grey and orange are reversible) but he was not sure how the UFh would fire the boiler as the stupid instruction didn't say. But due to this it struck me that if i connect the valve grey wires for both valves to the boilers live connection rather than thermostats live output, the reverse current from the orange wire would not go back to the valve and both valves would operate(turn off) independent of each other. and it worked. The only thing is the ufh pump and valve start together. There is no delay for the pump, i hope that is ok?

But thank you guys, thanks @SUNRAY and @oldbutnotdead, this definitely would not have been possible without this discussion and brainstorming with you guys. Amazing! Thanks a ton! And I feel obliged.

So from what you say I don't think you have fixed it as the pump may run into a dead head (closed valve).
At this point may I ask why you haven't wired it according to the manufacturers instructions, except colours and the position of one of the boiler enable wires?
Only one valve should be connected to the boiler along with LS & LR

 

[Onlydiy]

So from what you say I don't think you have fixed it as the pump may run into a dead head (closed valve).
At this point may I ask why you haven't wired it according to the manufacturers instructions, except colours and the position of one of the boiler enable wires?
Only one valve should be connected to the boiler along with LS & LR

If i connect only one valve to the boiler, then how would i enable the boiler from the other valve if i use it enable the pump?

 

[SUNRAY]

If i connect only one valve to the boiler, then how would i enable the boiler from the other valve if i use it enable the pump?

As a curiosity while 'watching TV' last night I spent several hours working out the cuircuit diagram of the UH4. I'm not saying what I have produced is totally accurate but it's posted in #22 above. This is something I have spent my time on basically for you.

Have you attempted to follow advice given by the several of us, especially in my post #17 which is as close to the manufacturers instructions I can get to with your interpretation of the boilers connexions. You have also been asked about the boiler a couple of times with no response. The manufacturer has provided a piece of kit which should (and I assume does) work as directed, the only variation (as I see it) is the boiler connexions and the variation I've offered is a fairly regular procedure.

Something I've spotted before but failed to mention yet is the zone 4 pump switch should be 'OFF'. As you have it set the UFH terminals

are activated, as it is I have no idea what that is connected to but I suspect the valve motor and the pump, in other words if the rads call for heat I suspect your UFH is also receiving the hot water despite the UFH controling device not calling for it.

As it is, there is a small chance that the UFH pump could suffer if the valve doesnt open for some reason.


I'll suggest you look at the excellent post #18 again.
Do you have a test meter? Such as multimeter or continuity meter or even a neon or LED screwdriver?

 

[Onlydiy]

Hi @SUNRAY, yes, it was following your instruction on post 17 is what i connected the grey (you did said it could be either grey or orange) to the boiler live which helped in isolating the 2 valves and they now work independent of each other. After doing this the UFH is NOT receiving hot water if the radiator asks for. Now it gets hot water only when the UFH thermostat kicks in and the valve and pump starts.

As for the boiler, it is a valiant ecotech pro 28 h and has 5 wires. L, E, N and black and grey. Not sure what the black is for but has always been connected to the Live wire. The Grey is the call for heating. Yes, I do have a new multimeter( don't know how it works yet ), and a line tester. That's what i have be using to check the line flow. I do agree that the pump may run dead head if the valve doesn't open. But currently the valve opens and the pump starts the same time as they are both connect at the same place as per the diagram. The difference is that the pump live is at the same place as valve live and orange wire is connected to boiler call for heating wire rather than the pump live. Only missing part to the puzzle is the pump doesn't have a delay start as you recommended.

 

[SUNRAY]

So now we know the boiler we can see from page 29 of the manual (very easy to find with Google) how the boiler is supposed to be wired to terminals 3 and 4.

I imagine you can remove the cover to find this to see what your 5 core cable is connected to. A picture would be good.

PLEASE ENSURE YOU ISOLATE THE POWER BEFORE REMOVING BOILER COVERS