Help needed - Floor creaking

[Bl888]

I tried replacing screws and it didn’t make any difference.

guess the next step will be to rip up and relay the boards.

could it be that the beams are flexing in the middle due to the Length of the floor beams?

Thanks

 

[JohnD]

...creaking .....

....Chip board flooring was used......

.....chipboard floor....

Chipboard is an awful material.

Rip it up

It will be useful on November 5th, because it is especially suitable for bonfires

Not floors.

 

[Bl888]

Chipboard is an awful material.

Rip it up

It will be useful on November 5th, because it is especially suitable for bonfires

Not floors.

I thought that was the norm these days for builders.

any recommendation to replace it with?

 

[JohnD]

I thought that was the norm these days for builders.

Yes, because it's cheap, and will usually last until your cheque clears

any recommendation to replace it with?

I think ply. 18mm usually. I think the next size up is 22mm or 25mm

Struts (nogs) under all unsupported edges.

Mine was square-edge so struts are essential, but it's also easy to lift and add any if necessary.

I also laid mineral wool insulation between the joists while it was up. Especially important round the edges of the room as draughts can get up under the skirting. hopefully you already have it, but add thicker if it is skimpy. The grade treated with Ecose does not shed irritant dust or fibres. It is not flammable so I prefer it to foam board.

edit
Some people like chipboard.

 

[Bl888]

Yes, because it's cheap, and will usually last until your cheque clears



I think ply. 18mm usually. I think the next size up is 22mm or 25mm

Struts (nogs) under all unsupported edges.

Mine was square-edge so struts are essential, but it's also easy to lift and add any if necessary.

I also laid mineral wool insulation between the joists while it was up. Especially important round the edges of the room as draughts can get up under the skirting. hopefully you already have it, but add thicker if it is skimpy. The grade treated with Ecose does not shed irritant dust or fibres. It is not flammable so I prefer it to foam board.

edit
Some people like chipboard.

thanks for this. We have a fitted wardrobe now one side so I will get it cut and lifted upto the wardrobe.

hopefully the carpet will lay back ok

 

[Bl888]

thanks for this. We have a fitted wardrobe now one side so I will get it cut and lifted upto the wardrobe.

hopefully the carpet will lay back ok

Yes, because it's cheap, and will usually last until your cheque clears



I think ply. 18mm usually. I think the next size up is 22mm or 25mm

Struts (nogs) under all unsupported edges.

Mine was square-edge so struts are essential, but it's also easy to lift and add any if necessary.

I also laid mineral wool insulation between the joists while it was up. Especially important round the edges of the room as draughts can get up under the skirting. hopefully you already have it, but add thicker if it is skimpy. The grade treated with Ecose does not shed irritant dust or fibres. It is not flammable so I prefer it to foam board.

edit
Some people like chipboard.

Would this be job for a chippy or manageable as a DIY?

 

[JohnD]

chippy will be quicker

but probably your new boards will be 2440x1220, same as the builders used, so fairly easy to lay out. You will need a circular saw of some kind, and a vacuum cleaner and mask for the dust, and will be cutting quite a lot of struts/nogs. The big boards are awkward to carry, especially upstairs, on your own. There is a clamping handle tool for carrying boards that I have never got round to buying.

You don't have to pull up the whole floor in one go if you don't want to.

You can pencil or chalk cable and pipe runs on the boards before drilling.

I think it best to put the biggest, uncut boards at the doorway and the centre of the room where you will be walking most, and any cut pieces round the edges of the room. These will also be easier to take up for any future wiring or plumbing. you can lift and slide them out without needing to remove skirting. The factory cut edges will be truly straight and square, and you can hide your own cuts under the skirting if they are not perfect.

A chippy would probably use self-countersinking screws for speed, though I worry I will cut too deep when they are tightened down. I like a small pilot through the ply, and a countersink.

 

[Bl888]

chippy will be quicker

but probably your new boards will be 2440x1220, same as the builders used, so fairly easy to lay out. You will need a circular saw of some kind, and a vacuum cleaner and mask for the dust, and will be cutting quite a lot of struts/nogs. The big boards are awkward to carry, especially upstairs, on your own. There is a clamping handle tool for carrying boards that I have never got round to buying.

You don't have to pull up the whole floor in one go if you don't want to.

You can pencil or chalk cable and pipe runs on the boards before drilling.

I think it best to put the biggest, uncut boards at the doorway and the centre of the room where you will be walking most, and any cut pieces round the edges of the room. These will also be easier to take up for any future wiring or plumbing. you can lift and slide them out without needing to remove skirting. The factory cut edges will be truly straight and square, and you can hide your own cuts under the skirting if they are not perfect.

A chippy would probably use self-countersinking screws for speed, though I worry I will cut too deep when they are tightened down. I like a small pilot through the ply, and a countersink.

fancy a job?

Does the existing skirting need to ripped off before all this?

Also the creaking seems to get louder towards the middle of the room. could it even be from the beam flex instead of the chipboard?

 

[JohnD]

I don't know, you can calculate necessary joists by their dimensions, length and spacing.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Chipboard is an awful material.

Rip it up

It will be useful on November 5th, because it is especially suitable for bonfires

Not floors.

John always says this because

1. John has never installed chipboard

and

2. John is not a carpenter

Properly installed - and that means all joints fully supported, D4 glue on all the joints, enough screws on the sheets and ideally glued to the joists as well - it is perfectly adequate. Ply on the other hand is highly variable thesr days. Much of it is Chinese and it is often poorly glued, delaminates easily and is full of voids, so unless you can garantee Malaysian, Indonesian or Brazillian origin I'd be wary of hardwood. plywood. A lot of commercial builds I've been involved in morre recently have gone over to using t&g larch plywood (2400 x 1200mm). I suspect this may be down to quality issues with the Chinese carp we see so often, but I can't say for certain

John, some of us do know how to lay chipboard flooring properly so it never creaks. The issue generally isn't the material - it's the pricework system used by contractors to get it installed in combination with a lack of oversight by construction companies thst leads to problems.

The other issue is that the joists themselves may be marginally specced or poorly installed. If there is twisting in the joists under load (because they are too long/undersize/wrong grade, etc) then changing to plywood flooring won't ever cure it. Instead it may be necessary to introduce solid strutting (often wrongly referred to as "noggins" by people who dont know any better) between the joists or take other action to correct the underlying fault before relaying the sub-floor

And yes, the skirtings and architraves need to come off for this job

 

[JohnD]

John, some of us do know how to lay chipboard flooring properly so it never creaks.

must be rare.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Ha bloody ha!

 

[ted456]

i go with you JobandKnock,chipboard flooring works fine and has done for years. i wonder who started these rumours about the c/board? probably the Ply Mfr's?

By the way, we 'v already had very effective socialism for years - Govt takes our money and gives it to the needy rich while clamping conservatism on the low pay levels and the poor.