Help please - Wiring top of stairs light

[stuthorpe]

Hello everyone first post for me,

Im after abit of help if anyone would be kind enough.

I have just replaced the light fitting at the bottom and top of my stairs. Both lights come on fine but now none of the lights upsairs will come on apart from the one ive just replaced..?

I don't know what ive done wrong and im sure it will be an easy fix, ive attached a photo of how ive got the top of stairs light fitting wired at present. I'm sure i have wired the bottom light correct beacuse there is only a live and neutral wires.

Any help would be great, many thanks in advance!!

Stu.

Untitled

• stuthorpe
• 24 Sep 2011
• 1

 

[Taylortwocities]

How was it wired before you replaced it?
Why has that black wire on the right got a brown wire connected to it? It should not have. Also it doesn't go anywhere.

And most important. Where is the earth conductor?.
Its a Class I fitting. That light must be earthed or you cannot use it.

 

[stuthorpe]

Thanks for the reply, ive sorted it now with help from the father inlaw..!

I had the loop wire from downstairs wrong, it now goes into the same block hole as the neutral connection and the live connection is kept separate.

Im not too sure if this house has an earth connection?? although i could be wrong as this is all new to me..

thanks again for the reply.

Stu.

 

[Click4]

Hi, As stated you should not be using a class 1 light fitting without an earth!

there should be an earth, copper wire without insulation, and should be sleaved green and yellow although older wiring sometimes just had green sleaving.

either way, should be earthed, as it is dangerous to use a light fitting like that without an earth as if a fault occurs the whole light fitting could become live! and no need to say how dangerous that is, if touched, life threatening.

Switch wire should also be sleaved brown, as switch wire has no neutral, both wires from the switch are live.

 

[NewOrder]

If your lighting circuit has no earth, then I would want to get all the wiring inspected as I far as I know its been the legal requirement since at least 14th edition in 1966 if not before. Can anybody shed light on that?

A metal light fitting done by a diyer and with no earth doesn't bare thinking about, and I am a DIYer (limit myself to replacing light fittings/plugs) myself but the earth is one thing I always make sure is done correctly.

I wonder if that black wire is an incorrectly sleeved earth? Although it is not something you can guess as the consequences could be lethal.

 

[stuthorpe]

As far as i know there is no earth cable for the two light fittings i have just changed. However there is a safety earth cut off switch on the fuse box under the stairs incase there is a bad earth in the system. Does this mean the electics are safely earthed?

Worried now incase some thing bad happens and if I need an expensive fix to get things up to scratch.

cheers, stu.

 

[Paul_C]

If your lighting circuit has no earth, then I would want to get all the wiring inspected as I far as I know its been the legal requirement since at least 14th edition in 1966 if not before. Can anybody shed light on that?

Not a legal requirement, as the Wiring Regs. are not mandatory. But you're correct that it was the 14th edition in 1966 which introduced the rule about providing an earth at every lighting outlet. Previously it was required only in certain instances.

 

[stuthorpe]

joydivision - think the house was built in 1950's, hope its not the original wiring thats still in, surely it can't be..? We moved in last Nov so I will have to find out.

stu

 

[NewOrder]

Can you see if there is any junction boxes before that terminal block?

Also you could try unscrewing a pendant to see if any of the other lighting circuits have earth. If not then they would really question the age of the wiring. How old is the consumer unit?

 

[Paul_C]

As far as i know there is no earth cable for the two light fittings i have just changed. However there is a safety earth cut off switch on the fuse box under the stairs incase there is a bad earth in the system. Does this mean the electics are safely earthed?

Impossible to say without checking. But the fact that there is no earth available at the light fittings it not in itself an indication of earth problems elsewhere for an installation of this age. Before 1966, it was common for the lighting circuits to be wired without an earth, so long as all the lights and switches were of a type which allowed the exemption from earthing to be applied.

think the house was built in 1950's, hope its not the original wiring thats still in, surely it can't be..?

It could well be. No earths on lights suggests pre-1966 (give or take a little, since these things aren't absolute). It's unlikely that a 1950's house would have been rewired within such a short period of time.

 

[stuthorpe]

joyd, The junction box with all the fuses in doesn't look too old, no idea how old it is. Cannot see any terminal block but I wouldn't know what one look like.. Just checked lights in living room and dining room and it seems to be the same sort of situation with no earth.

Paul_C, I see what you mean about using light fitings that will not require an earth.

I think I will have to get things checked out proffesionally, I sort of know two electricians that may have a look for me.

Many thanks for all the replies!!! I will let you know how I get on.

Stu.

 

[RF Lighting]

The very first thing you need to do is take those new light fittings down and replace them with fully insulated fittings such as a traditional flex drop before someone gets injured.

 

[Electrifying]

This thread is a perfect example of why all DIY electrical work should be banned.

You can guarantee that there is a big sticker on the OPs light fittings saying 'This accesory MUST be earthed'......but do they pay any attention - NO.

They haven't got a clue.....no idea what purpose the earth even serves. It's a joke!

The very minimum testing I would do before fitting a Class 1 accesory is R2 continuity and I would then do an EFLI after fitting- not much chance of that here, is there?


Rant over.

 

[sparkwright]

Your picture doesn't show very clearly what the cable insulation is made from.

If it's rubber it will need replacing.

If there are earths they may have been shoved into the ceiling void.

Either way, any metal fittings must be earthed.

If in doubt about the condition/earthing of the wiring, send more pictures, some from other rooms may be helpful too.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

This thread is a perfect example of why all DIY electrical work should be banned.

No - it's an example of why people should learn about the things they intend to fiddle with before starting, rather than adopting the frankly mentally deficient attitude that (often complete) lack of knowledge should not be a bar to them fiddling.

You can guarantee that there is a big sticker on the OPs light fittings saying 'This accesory MUST be earthed'......but do they pay any attention - NO.

No.

And yet tell them that they were stupid f***wits for deciding that they should go ahead anyway and you can start counting the minutes before someone comes along and expresses the opinion that "ooh - we mustn't tell people off, no matter how egregiously incompetent their behaviour was"