Help understanding setup and installing smart heating system

[svemula9]

Hi,
I live in the UK (Belfast) recently bought a 3 Bed house house with two floors 0 and 1. It has Glowworm Easicom 28c boiler fitted in the utility There is a programmable timer with a switch in the utility, There are two wired rotary thermostats fitted in the hallways of the two floors. There is a motorised port valve underneath the boiler.
I want to understand if this is a multi-zoned heating system and the two thermostats control the heating on the two floors separately. The timer on the boiler is always switched off even then the heating continues when the heating switch is turned on at the other program timer.

I want to replace the program timer and the rotary thermostats with smart ones (Nest, Tado, Hive...) which smart one would be suitable with this setup and do i also need Smart TRVs which gets linked with the smart thermostats.

Will i be able to do it my self or do i need an engineer. How easy/difficult would it be.
Any help appreciated. Thanks

Programable Timer with heating on/off switch:

Programmer Timer wiring:

Thermostat (same on both floors):

Thermostat wiring:

 

[Madrab]

If it was multi zoned then there would normally need to be a separate zone valve and flow pipework to each floor

The fact that there are 2 stats would suggest it is, but you would need to find that other zone valve and the upstairs pipework. Can you post a pic of the valve that's under the boiler?

The programmer has 2 SL out, presumably heading to each stat, the stats will then switch back to each zone valve and from there back to the boiler. The programmer on the boiler will probably have been bypassed.

 

[svemula9]

I found there are two zone valves one under the boiler (boiler is on a counter) and one hiding between boiler and the wall which i couldn't see until i climbed on the counter

Under boiler:

Beside boiler:

 

[Madrab]

OK - so the flow pipe from the boiler will split into 2 and then each will head into its own 2 port valve so yes you have an multi zone.

You can use any of the smart setups but to keep it truly multizone then it would be easier to have 2 kits with 2 stats and receivers. Alternative is use a home hub system with the 2 stats talking to the one base and that base talks to the receiver @ the boiler. Loads out there to choose from.

There will always be some consolidation of wiring and connections into the boiler, so that may need a gas safe engineer to do.

 

[RandomGrinch]

I want to replace the program timer and the rotary thermostats with smart ones (Nest, Tado, Hive...) which smart one would be suitable with this setup and do i also need Smart TRVs which gets linked with the smart thermostats.

There are a couple of ways of connecting up smart stats to your system, although some ways may require a little more investigation into the wiring.

Firstly, are you happy with the position the existing thermostats are currently in?
If not, it may be possible to wire a two zone wireless receiver, near to the existing programmer. e.g. a Wiser system...

Thermostat kit, Wiser, with 3-channel HubR and 2 room thermostats, anthracite & white

The perfect fit – this battery-powered, no-installation Wiser thermostat kit with 2 room thermostats (anthracite and white) is ideal for conventional boilers.

shop.se.com

The existing stats could be removed and the wiring decommissioned.
Leaving the wireless stats to be placed wherever you want them.

Alternatively, if you are happy with their current position, your existing stats have a neutral wire connected.
This allows you to replace them with any number of mains/battery powered stats
e.g. wired Tado.
You would then set the programmer to permanently on, or bridge it out (i.e. move the brown wire in terminal 3, to terminal 4, on the backplate); allowing your new stats to fully take control.

Another option with Nest, would be to mount the two Heatlinks near to the existing programmer, and attempt to reutilise the wiring going to the old stats to provide the 12V to power the Nest thermostat through the T1 and T2 terminals.

As most manufacturers have a device that would be suitable for your multi zone set-up; the system you choose will likely be down to personal preference - pick a system and we'll let you know if it can be hooked up!

Edit: didn't see madrabs post while writing this one!

 

[svemula9]

Thanks for your replies, learning a lot about the heating system. From your suggestions i think it is better for a gas engineer to look and fit a smart one.

I am looking for some nice aesthetic looking smart thermostats like Nest or any other which looks good and for future proofing like ability to add smart TRVs and they all talk to each other.

 

[RandomGrinch]

i think it is better for a gas engineer to look and fit a smart one.

For a very straightforward solution, have a look at the Tado wired...

Starter Kit - Wired Smart Thermostat V3+

It’s easy to install your new Smart Thermostat yourself. Control your heating using your smartphone and save energy for good.

uk.shop.tado.com

It supports multi zone and Tados smart TRVs.

They are battery powered stats that would be mounted where your existing stats are.
The Brown and Black wires in your existing stats terminals 1 and 3, would simply be connected to the Tados NO and COM terminals.
The grey wire currently in terminal 4, would need to be safely isolated in a separate terminal block.

And that's it, apart from turning your existing programmer to permanently on, or...

or bridge it out (i.e. move the brown wire in terminal 3, to terminal 4, on the backplate);

 

[ChrisJP]

Is there anything wrong or not working with your current setup that is causing you to think about altering it to smart thermostats? Thermostats that look nice (like a Nest) don't seem to me to make it worthwhile to go to a lot of trouble to alter your system, if it's working OK.
One simple modification you could make is to replace both thermostats with programmable ones - these allow you to programme in times of the day when the set temperature alters automatically. Such thermostats will likely be a direct replacement of your current "dial" type thermostats and fitting these would allow you to set your timer to permanently ON.

 

[svemula9]

Hey ChrisJP, i am looking to have ease of controls over the heating of the house from a mobile app whenever and however i want, instead of a set timing (this does not work with my family) so that is why i want to replace the existing old fashioned with smart ones.

@RandomGrinch ok from what you mentioned i understand that Tado's setup is easy and future proofing as well so that i can do it by myself (ofcourse i am an electronics and computer engineer and understand few things )
Apart from Tado can you suggest any other ones with similar easy functionality and good looks.

 

[RandomGrinch]

Apart from Tado can you suggest any other ones with similar easy functionality and good looks.

Its hard to come up with recommendations - having a pain-free install comes at the cost of aesthetics!

There aren't a great deal of 'Wired' smart stats available from the known brands.
Hive used to have one, but it has been discontinued for a while.
Most of the single channel products available, are designed to replace the existing stat with a receiver for the wireless smart stat itself.
That leaves an ugly receiver on the wall rather than an aesthetic stat, i.e. the Nest Thermostat E, would be an extremely simple install, but it leaves a Heatlink on the wall...



There are a few options available from Bosch, Honeywell Home and Heatmiser etc.
But I'm afraid I don't have any experience with them, to recommend one over the other.

If you want the choices, it may come back to getting someone in for the wiring modifications we suggested earlier.

 

[svemula9]

Thanks for the clarification so Tado seems to be a better choice here. What about Hive or evohome or ecobee?

Also a silly question most of my rooms have two radiators so do i need two smart TRVs in each room?

Edit:
I lately saw there is Tado X version (available in ebay UK for lesser price £140) but that is compatible with Relay and OpenTherm. As my glowworm is eBus not sure would that be a good deal if i pick the X from ebay or stick to v3+. Any insight here would be useful.

 

[svemula9]

@RandomGrinch any help here please

 

[RandomGrinch]

Sorry, I missed the notification for this thread.

What about Hive or evohome or ecobee?

As earlier, if you want a nice unit, sat on the wall, exactly where your old stats were mounted; you would want a 'wired' stat. Hive used to make one, but it has long been discontinued.
Honeywell Home T6 could be considered.
I don't know about the Ecobee.

Also a silly question most of my rooms have two radiators so do i need two smart TRVs in each room?

Yes, there wouldn't be much point having only one smart TRV; the other radiator could still be receiving heat, due to the zone being active, if it was providing heating for another room.

I lately saw there is Tado X version (available in ebay UK for lesser price £140)

I would hold off for now on the Tado X range - it is only just being introduced into the UK, wait for it to appear with the major suppliers first.
The Tado V3 wired starter kit is only £95 anyway...

https://www.screwfix.com/p/tado-v3-smart-wired-heating-thermostat-starter-kit/447ht

Also, keep an eye out for Black Friday prices, these were cheaper on Prime day.

You would only need a thermostat, and not the full starter kit, for the second unit.

but that is compatible with Relay and OpenTherm. As my glowworm is eBus not sure would that be a good deal if i pick the X from ebay or stick to v3+.

Although your boiler has eBus - you would need relay stats to replace your existing ones.
Tado theoretically supports eBus, but total compatibility isn't guaranteed.
Your system also has two zones; even if the boiler could handle the input from two eBus stats, you would still have to provide relay control of the mains operated zone valves.

 

[svemula9]

Great thanks for that. I will keep looking for V3 for some discounts.

 

[svemula9]

@RandomGrinch i have decided to go with Tado X to take advantage of matter and thread (if i buy more thread devices can use them to automate stuff) and now it is available in UK for £60 more for the starter kit.

The Brown and Black wires in your existing stats terminals 1 and 3, would simply be connected to the Tados NO and COM terminals.
The grey wire currently in terminal 4, would need to be safely isolated in a separate terminal block.

Now regarding wiring did you mean respectively about the colours and the terminals into tado?

As per the Tado's instructions L -> COM and SL -> NO and on my setup Brown (1) is the Live wire (checked with a mains tester) and Black (3) is SL i suppose.

Could you please help me understand.
Thanks