Help with slightly odd wiring for lights

[jjbhargreaves]

Hi

The plastic terminal was wired by the previous residents. We moved in about a year ago and i'd not had cause to investigate it until now... i'd not assumed anything for this - that was simply how it was when I opened it up.

 

[jjbhargreaves]

Answering some of the other questions from earlier...

Coming from the ceiling there are three wires:

1. One black
2. One red
3. One red with black tape, and bare copper earth which has had a standard green and yellow sleeve pushed onto it.

On the back of the switch at the wall, there are 3 red wires coming from the wall.

One is connected to L1 for one switch, another to the other L1, and the third to C, with a further short length of wire connection the two Cs.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Hi

The plastic terminal was wired by the previous residents. We moved in about a year ago and i'd not had cause to investigate it until now... i'd not assumed anything for this - that was simply how it was when I opened it up.

OK - in that case when you looked at it you assumed you were looking at a live & a neutral connected together.

Amounts to the same thing - a big hole in your understanding.

Nothing wrong with that - nobody is born knowing anything about anything, it all has to be learned, but without learning, and the understanding that comes from it, fiddling with your electrics is a bad idea.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Try again.

I've matched up neutral & neutral, earth & earth, and the switched line to the live, and have put the live (red) to one of the slots on the remaining spare slot on the chock block.

This doesn't match your description of the original wiring.

1. Blue (light neutral)
2. Red with black tape (assume switched line)
3. Black (neutral)

4. Nothing
5. Nothing
6. Nothing

7. Red (live)
8. Brown (light live)

 

[jjbhargreaves]

Ok chaps.

Unless you've any more advice to give, i'll check out now.

Sorry fellas. I'm an intelligent guy, albeit not one with the grounding you've had, and I know you're trying to help, but you're not really explaining. I'd appreciate a leg up here. If you're not willing to help out, i'll look elsewhere.

 

[jjbhargreaves]

EFL Impudence

Try giving a helpful answer rather than a patronising one. I've hung around enough forums to see what happens when that occurs, and I'm not very interested in someone making smart comments.

I've come here looking for help rather than people looking to take the ****... I appreciate i've made a mistake in your case, so if you've nothing more helpful to say, please don't post.

 

[EFLImpudence]

EFL Impudence

Try giving a helpful answer rather than a patronising one. I've come here looking for help rather than people looking to take the p**s... I appreciate i've made a mistake.

What is patronising or taking the p**s about my post?

I seem to be the only one who has noticed that you have wired the new light differently than the old one.

It is understandable that you do not know much about electrical wiring but when someone tells you what may be the answer you don't even seem to understand that.

GET AN ELECTRICIAN TO FIX IT AND SORT OUT THE EARTHING.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I'd appreciate a leg up here.

• http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=electrical+circuits+101
  
  
• http://web.archive.org/web/20080213151445/http://www.kevinboone.com/electricity.html
  
  
• http://web.archive.org/web/20080213151445/http://www.kevinboone.com/domesticinstallations.html
  
  
• //www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:books
  
  
• //www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics
  

 

[holmslaw]

..

 

[jjbhargreaves]

Ban all sheds - thanks, I read those the other day. Familiar from my physics A-levels many moons ago.

EFL - i've got no beef with you, but the post saying, "try again" and nothing else wasn't very helpful. I know the wiring is different, but what I was looking for was some advice as to how to wire it correctly rather than someone pointing this out to me.

I'm looking to try and do it myself as I really don't have much money to splash and would sooner try to learn some things in the process. I appreciate the circuit i'm looking at is a little out of the ordinary, so I was seeking guidance from you guys as you've got more knowledge than me. If the eventual conclusion is that I do have to get someone in to sort it out, that's fine, but i'd like to exhaust the options first.

If it's needed for me to check the earthing, fine, please someone tell me how to do it.

I appreciate the advice that's been given, and also the directive to seek a pro to sort it out, but it sort of defeats the point of a 'DIY' forum. If all you're going to teach me is, 'you don't know very much - get someone else to do it' it's not too helpful in my position.

Apologies for any offence given - I was a little brusque in my last post.

 

[sparkwright]

Now that I can answer as I wrote down before I removed it...

In order from left to right across the 8 sockets...

1. Blue (light neutral)
2. Red with black tape (assume switched line)
3. Black (neutral)

4. Nothing
5. Nothing
6. Nothing

7. Red (live)
8. Brown (light live)

In addition, there was a bare copper earth wire coming from the ceiling which was connected to the earth point on the plastic ceiling rose.

My old light was a standard non-metal pendant type.

Just to clarify, the switch is a 1-way plastic type, and I don't think it has an earth wire coming from it - taking a peek behind the switch panel I can't see one. The wires running to the L1 slots are both red (live), although my guess is that the other end of one of those red wires has the black tape around it and is the switched line.

As mentioned, the black with the red tape may be a neutral. It may be that the red tape is simply repairing some damaged insulation. Or even acted as some kind of 'marker' as reference for the original electrician!

Is the plain black, the red and the earth all in one cable?
And the black with the tape on it's own?

It seems likely the original way the light was wired was 'correct', so it seems a bit daft to wire in any other way.

It would seem the black with the tape is the neutral for the wall lights. This would explain why the light worked in series through the other switch, as the red live was not used as you had in a block on it's own.

As regards to earthing, the light would appear to get it's earth from the one earth wire mentioned.

There is probably a junction box hidden somewhere.

However, it would be wrong of me to assume all is ok. Everything should be checked out properly to see that all is safe.

 

[jjbhargreaves]

Hey...

Sorry, it was a red wire with black tape (rather than the other way around).

This red wire with with black tape also had the care copper earth wire in with it.

There was a separate red wire and a separate black wire coming from the ceiling.

 

[sparkwright]

RIGHT...(!)

So are you saying that originally the RED with the BLACK TAPE was connected with the plain black to the blue flex,

and the plain red was connected with the brown flex?

 

[jjbhargreaves]

Yes, that's it.

 

[sparkwright]

It is very common to use black as live and sleeve it red,
yet rare to use red as neutral and sleeve it black.

It does happen though.

Your wiring has been done in a unconventional manner that you probably won't see in a text book.

It would seem logical to wire the light up as it was originally. I can only assume it was wired in that way as a result of some alteration either to save work or by someone who didn't know what they were doing.

I cannot see any logic in putting the two reds together to the switched live, as you only need one switched live there.

As I said, I would like to think one earth wire is enough as there could be a junction box or a joint tucked away somewhere.

You could try fitting the old rose back as it was, see if it works, then get someone to check everything is safe, then get them to fit the new light.