Hi all interesting install query

[Wooshzz99]

The ceiling is DOWN FOUR INCHES that is ENOUGH

I am concerned about the grouping factors if they are bunched together and direct fising to the concrete is out

Clipping to the batttons can be dabgerous withthe plasterboarders screwing a wire if they miss a batton

 

[Wooshzz99]

I was not planning a basket to all points just a main spine from each board to the rooms that it runs then when in the room feed lights sockets ETC but we are back to post one its a LONG way down the wall for sockets and 5AMP light sockets switched form the various doors not to mention cat5 bt tv etc etc all down the 12ft ceilings at every location

 

[RF Lighting]

I know how to terminate MICC

 

[Wooshzz99]

RF there ore not many of us out there especiall who can re-use the pot seal olive and gland on old imperial pyro !!!!!!!!!!

 

[Lectrician]

Give some of us credit!

4" drop on ceilings?

Its a no brainer then.

T+E clipped and bunched.

Jobs a gooden.

cat5e and BT? You dont want to be running BT. You want to be flooding the place with dual cat5e points and patching phone lines into this at the patch panel

I dont see the need for tray or basket in a sealed void.

 

[Wooshzz99]

I suggested cat5 dual points but the customer wants seperate BT points and who am I to argue

I reallu dont fancy clipping bunches of cables to the battons its not possible to clip that many on a 2" batton and even using all round band etc what about the grouping factor derating the cables.

Thanks for the input at least we are now having a discussion

 

[Lectrician]

Do you not apply the grouping factor when you use tray/basket

Is it 2" timber cross battened?

Cables can rest on the cros batten when run that way, or clipped to the top batten when running the other? 2" clearence at all times then.

Maybe I am not picturing the ceiling construction correctly.

Have you priced the job, or specced it?

A job like this is bound to be fine with standard T+E.

Just bear in mind larger runs/rings etc may need larger CSA cables.

 

[Lectrician]

As for the cat5e, you as a spark should try to advise your client that the way they want to wire it is outdated.

The whole point of cat5e flood wiring is the ability to use it for all the comms.

running in CW1308 aswell is a dirty install IMO.

 

[Wooshzz99]

Ill get him round to the cat5e thing

I am installing 3 dis boards to shorten runs and reduce individual circuit loads as there will be more circuite with individual rcbos

No price at present

tooo many variables

IE.

Power points
Ceiling lights
5 Amp socket outlets switched from doors
cat5
cctv
aerial
suround sound
large cooker supply
external lights on photocell and contactors linked to alarm
ground source heat pump supply
wind turbine input
intruder alarm
smoke and heat heads

and on and on

 

[Wooshzz99]

You are correct about ceiling layout problem is builder is on a tight price and wants to batton one day and board the next thats not going to happen !!!!!!!!!!

Builder provided an all in price EXCEPT for the electrical services and isnt too pleased that he did not get them so he will be making it as alkward as possible for me you know how that works !!!! (im refusing to backhand him money)

 

[securespark]

I too am confused. You say you have 25 yrs experience but don't know what to do for the best.

You suggest pvc "pipe", but are worried about mechanical damage, then say you can install steel conduit. So why not install steel conduit then?

The advantage of this is that you will be able to do away with RCD protection for many of the circuits.

You say the customer wants BT and who are you to argue? Well, you don't. With your quarter century behind you, you persuade the customer Cat 5/6 is miles better, more versatile & more future-proof and more cost-effevtive to boot.

It's a no-brainer.

 

[breezer]

The regulatory bodies you mention dont mean anything, and they register companies not people.


as for your comment

so p**s off into your box and dont come back

thats not very nice of you is it.

you come to a forum, use incorect terminology to start with and wonder why you get the responce you do.

like the job you think you can do (but can't) Its not rocket science is it

 

[benstoneham]

If the ceiling is only battened down with 2x2 timber, you are at the very limit for placing T+E in the ceiling void

Lectrician> would you mind elaborating (not questioning it, just curious)... only thing I could think of was 50mm requirement for cables run outside of safe zones and un mech protected, or something else?

 

[Chri5]

So both floors will be solid?

Sounds like your need to supply some metal box trunking in the scree down the central spine of each floor and peel off to positions via metal conduit.

Make the trunking 2 compartment and that's going to cover the data, comms, access, security and AV on one side and the 230v in the other

Ground floor level will cover ground floor only
1st floor will cover lights for ground and 1st floor floor positions
1st ceiling and loft area via roof void which could be trunking, tray or open (run in the eves) and clipped / tied.

At 6500 sq ft each floor must be 3000 sq ft plus, so I'd look towards a commercial office style design with some floor sockets for islands such as mid room furniture and access traps to get to the containment at anytime in the future for add ons and servicing.

I'd have thought you would have already talked this over with the client, builder and architect since the build design will have to make allowances for high density cable volume and as such routes, risers, containment, positioning (alarm panels, smoke detection system, racks for Cat 5 + hardware for AV, net, data, then there's mood lighting control, external lighting, external security, access control, video entry and numerous other elements).

Site would be 415 3 phase which will add to the installation works- I'd assume central panel with phases being fed to 3 areas for distribution, balancing the load.

I'd go back and arrange a 'brief' and sit in tandem with the heating and vent guys.

M & E will have air con, waste, heat, HW and CW considerations which from you very, very basic information will also have issue with the solid concrete design you have described.

Once the whole picture for all services is confirmed the architect will then have to provide a build design that accommodates all the site M & E requirements- dry and wet risers, routes, locations for services from the suppliers, locations for amps, hubs, sky boxes, distribution centres, consumer units etc, etc.

If you want further thoughts then please clarify the build design in a more comprehensive post.

On a side note if you want help (and 99% of the peeps here enjoy helping) then I'd suggest you attempt to be a little less 'edgy'.

 

[Wooshzz99]

Thanks for the constructive input.

NO its single phase only its in the middle of no where and no three phase in sight.

Steel pipe or conduit is slow and expensive do you or anyone else on here actually use it for domestics I dont think so

OK I know this is a large domestic but still a domestic