Hip to gable loft extension and how it works

[Notch7]

In my opinion it just looks unattractive carrying the gable wall all the way up to the new flat roof of the rear extension and would look better mirroring the pitch of the front of the roof at least for a few tiles in and then forming the loft extension in dormers.

Yes it does stick out somewhat. Maybe they should get an artist in to paint a dummy verge on the wall and some clouds above -instant gable end

 

[platforminc]

Thanks for your observation, very nice write up.

So just to ask, is it the fact that its a hip to gable extension, is that the bit you don't like or is it the fact that the implementation in this case doesn't look nice ?
I will get you another picture of a different hip to gable extension.

Say what you mean. I think it is absolutely hideous, very poor design. I can vaguely see why they changed to grey roof tiles to match the render (even though they don't match the ground floor extension) but on one half of a pair of semi's? It's a joke surely? Is the owner blind?

I wonder if that change of roof tile alone is enough to scupper the permitted development situation. Is a grey roof tile "similar" to a brown/red roof tile? From that photo I would suggest not.

 

[Leofric]

By all means post another photo but people on here can't design your house extension , we don't even know what your house looks like. You need to employ an architect or architectural technician , somebody with some appreciation of good design, to prepare a scheme for the roof extension for your specific house.
A well designed extension can add thousands of pounds to the value of a property compared with a poor unattractive design.

 

[wessex101]

My tuppence worth. Don't allow yourself to be blinkered and constrained by what neighbours have done. Sit down and look at the space you've already got and work out what extra space you need, if any. The usual giveaway that this hasn't been done is client says "I want a 6 metre extension" or "I want a loft conversion" usually followed by "like the one down the road.".

I can tell the clients who have thought it through properly with an open mind because they say "I need a larger kitchen" or " I need an extra bedroom", they discuss the space they need and allow the designer to find the best solution to create that space. That might be an extension or a loft conversion or just internal alterations, occasionally it might be advice that the property is not worth extending or altering it might be better to move house.

I had a job recently where someone wanted a new roof on a bungalow with 2 extra bedrooms in the loft space "like next door." I looked at the property next door and it was an abomination and the internal layout was terrible with the staircase in the middle of the living room. So I said OK, I can design it like next door but let me do a few sketches first just to see what we can do with the space. By making some modest alterations to the existing ground floor layout we ended up with 3 large double bedrooms in the roof space plus a bathroom and ensuite, a very modern design that looks fabulous and and internal layout that flows beautifully with the staircase in the hall where it should be with an open galleried landing. It will probably work out cheaper than next doors as well not to mention probably increase the value of the property considerably more than next door.

 

[platforminc]

I think for me, I know what I want already. and its a hip to gable loft. I just came here to get a better understanding.
Please see the picture of the house.

 

[Leofric]

One of the requirements for permitted development is ' materials to be similar in appearance to the existing house '. As regards a roof , not quite as specific as saying roof tiles should match existing in colour , shape , size and texture as planners often state on consent conditions , but I think that is the implication.

 

[RichA]

I think for me, I know what I want already. and its a hip to gable loft. I just came here to get a better understanding.
Please see the picture of the house.

How much headroom do you have in the current loft? Looks like it will be tight.

 

[Mumblejumble]

This is not permitted development and I’ve learnt the hard way. Built like this as per the builder instructions it’s permitted development and yes he’s built hundreds like this. Then got letter from Council asking to put app in as its not permitted due to dormer not being separate and hanging with tiles. Permission refused and was told to reduce the size of dormer and detach it from the side wall. Appealed and inspector came out and appeal was dismissed. So please don’t think this is permitted only tile hung dormer is.

 

[tony1851]

The problem with these upward extensions is that they are called 'roof enlargements' in the legislation. This implies that there must be some of the original roof still showing after the dormer is built. How much original roof is to remain is debatable, which is a problem with the legislation.
Too often, the permitted development rules are 'open to interpretation' as they say, which doesn't help the householder or builder.

 

[Notch7]

This is not permitted development and I’ve learnt the hard way. Built like this as per the builder instructions it’s permitted development and yes he’s built hundreds like this. Then got letter from Council asking to put app in as its not permitted due to dormer not being separate and hanging with tiles. Permission refused and was told to reduce the size of dormer and detach it from the side wall. Appealed and inspector came out and appeal was dismissed. So please don’t think this is permitted only tile hung dormer is.

I am sorry to hear that.

permitted development rules can be hard to interpret, I know many will disagree, but applying for a LDC is safer.

I don't think local authorities like PD because it allows development that they cant rule over -so woe betide anybody that gets it wrong.

 

[Mumblejumble]

I’m after some advice pls. I posted last time to say that this development is not permitted and I have to put things right. I’m planning on putting things right but covid-19 came in the way. So here it goes my architect put in for full permission and liaised with them changed the plans without informing me and gained PD with condition to reduce the size of dormer and detach it from side wall within 6months. I wasn’t happy as I wanted permission on how it was built so told him to reapply which came bk as refusal so I appealed which was dismissed. The council asked me how I wanted to proceed I said I’ll bring it in line with PD so I thought that is ok I’ll get the dormer detached and hang it with tiles. The council are saying it has to be done as per the approved planning permission under permitted development and its drawings. This is the permission the architect got under PD. What I don’t understand is ok even though I put in for another permission after that one as I wasn’t happy with what the architect had done and the permission is refused and dismissed at appeal. They want me to work to this PD permission granted bk in May 2019 with condition of 6 months to put it right which ended in Nov 2019 and never stood ground as I put in another application after it. In the permission they grant me under PD they have asked me to take the dormer in from each side 300mm reduce the height from the ridge 200mm and setback 200mm from the edge of the eaves which it is but they must be measuring from the wall instead of the edge. They say that would bring it to 33.95 and inline wit PD, I’m a end terrace my allowance is 40.00 why are they making me do all this extra stuff which is not mentioned in the householder technical guidance apart from 200mm setback from the eaves. Why grant me with PD with these conditions as these ain’t mentioned no where. My dormer is built on my part of the roof it’s not higher then the highest part of the roof and setback 200mm from the edge of the eaves and when it’s of the wall will be in 300ml or so anyway. I don’t agree why it needs to be set in 300mm from my neighbours side as it’s on my part of the roof and why it needs to be set down 200mm from the ridge, where’s the guidance or legislation? Sorry to go on but I’m confused.com. Any help would be much appreciated. (One thing is for sure I will never get a development done for the remainder of my life after the stress and sleepless nights this issue is causing me). The worst is new ones like this are appearing as they have 3yrs to build cause they have been granting them permission to which the inspectorate took no notice even though I submitted evidence and just said council need to be consistent with their decisions and she doesn’t understand how that permission came about and for several others she has sited and acknowledged how unfair the appeals scheme was which ain’t no good to me. It’s 4.20am time for me to sleep if I can switch off from all this...

 

[DevilDamo]

I started to read all of that but got lost after the first few sentences. Can you re-write it again but with some paragraphs?

Firstly, you mentioned your architect submitted a full Planning application, secured PD and a condition was attached. You don’t get conditions under PD (CoL applications) so you were solely referring to a full Planning application, which had secured PP (Planning Permission) and condition(s) were attached.

 

[Mumblejumble]

The council grants me full planning permission (retrospective) but say as the development would fall under PD it does not need to be assessed against local or national policy.
Then it imposes the condition to reduce the size and detach the dormer from the side wall within 6months which ended in Nov 2019.
What my question is that I’m fine with detaching the dormer from the side wall which will bring it in 300mm. Why have they asked for it to be reduced in height 200mm when it isn’t higher then the highest part of the roof.
I’m a end terrace so we have roofs running along, my dormer is on my boundary roof so why have I been asked to bring it 300mm in from that to. They say by doing all this it will come to 33.95. Under PD I’m allowed 40. I believe they are putting extra financial burden on me as there are no such rules about bringing in the dormer or setting it down from the highest part of the roof. I’ve looked at the technical guidance and the main thing there is 200mm set back and not to be higher then the highest part of the roof under PD. Could anyone advice how they could ask me to do this and what part of the legislation it is. Hope it makes some sense now. Thanks

 

[Mumblejumble]

Extract from the permission.

 

[tony1851]

@op. Did your house originally have a hipped roof?
If it did, then under PD you can build directly on the side gable wall - it's specifically allowed - (B)2(b)i.
There would be no requirement to set it down from the ridge (the only PD stipulation is that it musn't be higher than the ridge) and the only two other conditions for PD would be the 200mm eaves set-back, and keeping the volume below 40m³.