Hive and Ideal Logic Combi 30

[Gooner23]

Hi, new here and i apologise if this has been asked a thousand times. Im looking to fit Hive to my current boiler which is a ideal logic combi 30 which is controlled remotely (no wires) by an ideal PRT3 programmer in the living room. I now want to fit Hive, my question is apart from the power do i just remove the link shown in the picture and replace it with the wires from the Hive?

 

[Taylortwocities]

Yes, the Hive contact replaces the link. You will also need to run LN&E To the Hive to power it. So you’ll need two twin and earth cables, or a 4-core plus earth cable.

 

[Gooner23]

Thanks that's what i thought, do i need to do anything with the receiver on the front of the boiler? shown in picture

 

[ericmark]

You would need to replace the link wire plug removed when the PRT3 programmer was fitted. I have looked at the installation instructions for the PRT3 and it does not say it is a modulating control. However Diagram D page 33 does give the connection details for OpenTherm, it says

Locate the OpenTherm connection on the right hand side of the boiler installer connections area and connect the 2 core cable from the OpenTherm device.

so it seems likely the PRT3 programmer is opentherm, and Hive is not opentherm, so looking at Honeywell EvoHome or Drayton Wiser or Tado or even Nest although Nest does not work with TRV heads.

 

[Gooner23]

You would need to replace the link wire plug removed when the PRT3 programmer was fitted. I have looked at the installation instructions for the PRT3 and it does not say it is a modulating control. However Diagram D page 33 does give the connection details for OpenTherm, it says so it seems likely the PRT3 programmer is opentherm, and Hive is not opentherm, so looking at Honeywell EvoHome or Drayton Wiser or Tado or even Nest although Nest does not work with TRV heads.

So basically i cant use Hive? got to go down nest route?

 

[flameport]

So basically i cant use Hive?

You can use Hive as described previously.

Opentherm is irrelevant.

 

[Gooner23]

You can use Hive as described previously.

Opentherm is irrelevant.

So do i need to link the receiver out? please see pic? was pretty sure what i needed to do, until the post by ericmark

 

[ericmark]

You can use Hive, there are two ways to control a modulating boiler, one is with a thermostat connected to the ebus and the other is by the return water temperature. The problem in your case is to replace the link wire plug which I would assume you don't have.

 

[Gooner23]

You can use Hive, there are two ways to control a modulating boiler, one is with a thermostat connected to the ebus and the other is by the return water temperature. The problem in your case is to replace the link wire plug which I would assume you don't have.

You assume correct, i don't have it, the boiler was fitted when we moved in, but can i just solder the wires needed together and heat shrink?

 

[ericmark]

A modern gas boiler does not simply switch on/off, it modulates, that is turns up and down. The Hive system uses linked TRV heads and a demand for heat system, which is essential for it to work in an economic manor. So the wall thermostat only turns off after all the linked TRV heads are satisfied. And the temperature of the return hot water controls how much the boiler modulates. So Hive is controlled by the temperature of multi-rooms. Where as the ideal PRT3 programmer and Nest only control one room.

Every time a modulating boiler is turned off by external controls it turns on again at flat out setting, and at flat out it does not gain the latent heat so it is important if you want economic running to reduce the off/on switching to a minimum and use the TRV heads to do most of the control. Using an off/on thermostat will work, but not as economical as a system that adjusts the boiler output.

Some boilers can only use modulating thermostats that manufacturer produces, and the Hive is a cleaver idea to allow you to use a third party thermostat with boilers not OpenTherm enabled like Worcester Bosch, the advantage is with Hive wall thermostat and TRV heads you are monitoring multi-rooms.

But you need the old link wire plug, there is a guy called @stem who is likely the best on here to advise how to get around that missing link wire plug, I would hold off until he replies.

 

[EFLImpudence]

What am I missing?

Surely the Hive will just replace the PRT3 receiver.

 

[ericmark]

What am I missing?

Surely the Hive will just replace the PRT3 receiver.

No the PRT3 is it seems OpenTherm and Hive is On/Off. I think OpenTherm uses a 0 - 40 volt signal to tell the boiler what output is required, so the boiler modulates and does not turn on/off.

I say seems, as although I know the boiler is OpenTherm enabled, the instructions I have found don't actually say OpenTherm, but the fitting instructions refer to the removing of a link plug, and no idea what is in the link plug, may be just a wire, but could be a resistor, so it needs some one who knows the boiler to give an answer, I hoped by referring to @stem he would get a notice that his name has been used, and can say what was in the link plug.

If it was OpenTherm then the fitting of Hive would be a down grade, unless also fitting Hive TRV heads, and the problem is the linked Hive TRV heads are not cheap. The best system would seem at moment to be Drayton Wiser which like Honeywell Evohome uses an add on module to work OpenTherm, but the same problem still exists, the poster has not got the link plug, and we have no idea from the instructions what was in the link plug.

 

[Taylortwocities]

So do i need to link the receiver out? please see pic? was pretty sure what i needed to do, until the post by ericmark

Probably you need one of these
https://www.theheatxchange.co.uk/ideal-harness-timer-option-link-ste179052

 

[ericmark]

This is the bit we are interested in, and it does seem a simple link, but I would not want to tell some one to link without being sure.

 

[Gooner23]

Thanks for everyone's input it really is much appreciated, although im more confused than ever lol. Would a nest be an easier although more expensive option? or will i still have this link issue? i have no trvs to control, all i want to be able to do is control the central heating from either the app (when when away from home) / google home or the thermostat its self