Hive heating again. Plumber removed wiring for thermostat!!
- Thread starter vinny1979
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D
Deleted member 267285
Yes, that’s what I mean. A lot of my customers don’t know this, so thought I would ask.
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Seem to remember the Hive "demand for heat" does not work over 22ºC, so only at the thermostat can it be turned up higher, which is why the thermostat should be installed in a room kept cool. However, it seems you are turning it up at the thermostat, so it should work.
I would say it's not your call to fix, if the plumber has made an error, up to him to correct. There are so many places where the error could be made, and it could be due to a simple switch being off. Once you try to correct, then you can introduce more faults. So I would just get him back to fix it.
I would say it's not your call to fix, if the plumber has made an error, up to him to correct. There are so many places where the error could be made, and it could be due to a simple switch being off. Once you try to correct, then you can introduce more faults. So I would just get him back to fix it.
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That confirms my guess.
And yes, the old stat appears to have been bridged out correctly.
Have you tried...
After that, I would investigate the functionality of the Hive and Valve.
The lack of heating, may be purely coincidental, after a period of being unused.
To add the diverter valve was fitted previously with some kind of multiplug, my guy said he had took this away also and tidied the wiring.
This could be the point where things went wrong maybe?
It’s annoying as I’m having to use the immersion switch for hot water
This could be the point where things went wrong maybe?
It’s annoying as I’m having to use the immersion switch for hot water
Looking at all the information, assuming Terminals 12 black and 1 grey are the boiler enable a d pump control, it appears it's correctly wired, after verfying functionality of the devices the tank stat wiring is the first part I'd be looking at.
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I remember my granddaughter being born some 18 years ago now, and a desperate phone call from my daughter, the central heating is not working.
It was a Y Plan, and armed with my meters, I went to fix it. Very quickly worked out boiler not being switched on, at time a new build, but they must have used monkeys, as only twin and earth to thermostat, and earth used for the hysteresis improver resistance. So my problem was to know what readings to expect from the motorised valve, now I have a circuit diagram,
back then I had little idea what was inside the device, both my daughter and I short of money, and it was a leap of faith to go to Screwfix and buy a motorised valve, as it seemed likely the problem, but readings were inconclusive. And not helped by incorrect info, asked daughter did the radiators get warm in summer, she answered no.
Anyway it transpired, before they bought the house, the heating must have failed, and to get it going, someone latched the bleed lever open, the son-in-law tidying up before the daughter arrived home with the new baby, had knocked the lever unlatching it, this resulted in the original fault returning. And the new motorised valve cured the problem, and I let out a sigh of relief.
The point is, even with my test equipment it was a bit of trial and error, I was 80% sure I had found the problem, but those resistors and diode in the valve were giving me some odd readings when I did not know what was inside.
Today, the first test would be to latch the valve and see if the heating starts to work. Not a cure, but it is a pointer to what the problem is, we must assume the plumber is not an idiot, so looking for a fault he could easily miss. And a latched valve, where someone has done it to hide the fault, is easy to miss.
It was a Y Plan, and armed with my meters, I went to fix it. Very quickly worked out boiler not being switched on, at time a new build, but they must have used monkeys, as only twin and earth to thermostat, and earth used for the hysteresis improver resistance. So my problem was to know what readings to expect from the motorised valve, now I have a circuit diagram,
back then I had little idea what was inside the device, both my daughter and I short of money, and it was a leap of faith to go to Screwfix and buy a motorised valve, as it seemed likely the problem, but readings were inconclusive. And not helped by incorrect info, asked daughter did the radiators get warm in summer, she answered no.Anyway it transpired, before they bought the house, the heating must have failed, and to get it going, someone latched the bleed lever open, the son-in-law tidying up before the daughter arrived home with the new baby, had knocked the lever unlatching it, this resulted in the original fault returning. And the new motorised valve cured the problem, and I let out a sigh of relief.
The point is, even with my test equipment it was a bit of trial and error, I was 80% sure I had found the problem, but those resistors and diode in the valve were giving me some odd readings when I did not know what was inside.
Today, the first test would be to latch the valve and see if the heating starts to work. Not a cure, but it is a pointer to what the problem is, we must assume the plumber is not an idiot, so looking for a fault he could easily miss. And a latched valve, where someone has done it to hide the fault, is easy to miss.
Well well
Two different electricians and plumbers appeared today.
The heating and hot water are now working
The culprit?
The diverter valve apparently
Fitted a new one and all works
Can someone explain to me how this randomly happened at the same time a new boiler was fitted and how this caused all of my problems
Thank you
Two different electricians and plumbers appeared today.
The heating and hot water are now working
The culprit?
The diverter valve apparently
Fitted a new one and all works
Can someone explain to me how this randomly happened at the same time a new boiler was fitted and how this caused all of my problems
Thank you
I'm afraid coincidences happen; a random failure, on top of a wiring change, can cause all sorts of issues when troubleshooting.
If we knew the H/W wasn't working, we may have got there sooner.
The Hive controls the valve, but it is the micro switch within the valve, that tell the boiler to fire.
I don't know if @CBW will agree, but if you frequent the Plumbing and C/H forum, most problems like this are caused by faulty valves, followed by heating controls and then other issues, such as tank stats.
I usually suggest checking the controls first, as they are simpler for a novice to troubleshoot.
Thanks for letting us know the outcome
D
Deleted member 267285
Yes, I agree. Coincidences can occur too.I'm afraid coincidences happen; a random failure, on top of a wiring change, can cause all sorts of issues when troubleshooting.
If we knew the H/W wasn't working, we may have got there sooner.
The Hive controls the valve, but it is the micro switch within the valve, that tell the boiler to fire.
I don't know if @CBW will agree, but if you frequent the Plumbing and C/H forum, most problems like this are caused by faulty valves, followed by heating controls and then other issues, such as tank stats.
I usually suggest checking the controls first, as they are simpler for a novice to troubleshoot.
Thanks for letting us know the outcome
Hmmm - in this instance it appears is may possibly be fired directly by the HW stat:If we knew the H/W wasn't working, we may have got there sooner.
The Hive controls the valve, but it is the micro switch within the valve, that tell the boiler to fire.
Hive term 4/grey - term 10 - term 15 - brown/stat/black - term 12 - term 14 - black/boiler/grey - term 1 - brown/pump
It appears the diverter valve contact is only functional when Hive is calling for CH.
In my work I've regularly worked on equipment which is decades old and very worn out, frequently it has been the reason I'm doing some work but also frequently the consultant has seriously misjudged the problem or possibly the wrong consultant has been consulted. Things like valves (and bear in mind 4inch", 8 inch etc are common in my line of work) are frequently not scheduled to be changed despite being totally knackered and finding failures elsewhere in the system (controls systems quickly go out of fashion) and are replaced rather than repaired. So that's where I come in and do the control system repair/replacement/upgrade and the valve still doesn't work.
Of course things on their last knockings may also get disturbed and fail, just recently I did a bit of DIY and in the process lifted a lagged 15mm copper pipe, resting across joists, maybe 10mm to slide a TV coax under it. Maybe a couple of weeks later I found a gatevalve 3-4 metres from it had started dripping. Coincidence ?
Sorry, I may be misunderstanding, but, I see...
The grey from Hive terminal 3 HW/On ->10 -> 15 -> brown, common of tank stat.
Grey from 3 Port -> 7 -> 8 -> black to Hive terminal 1 HW/Off -> 16 -> grey on tank stat
Black from tank stat -> 14 -> 12 -> black LR to boiler -> 7 -> orange of 3 Port.
Green/yellow Hive terminal 4 C/H On -> 9 -> 3 -> brown/white of 3 Port
Grey Pump feed supply from boiler -> 1 -> brown pump.
So a standard Y Plan.
I''ll take your word it's a standard Y plan, the only one I've ever worked on was in my home and struggled to keep it working properly with the hard water here, it had a relay in the Honeywell wiring centre.
Changing it to 2 2port valves was so much better. I have installed maybe 10 CH systems but never a 3 port valve.
On the sorts of systems I have worked on 3port valves are very rare and then they tend to be used for a bypass function and mostly have a definite sweep element to them.
We appear to be saying the same thing, Ive moved the statements round so they are in similar context
the control path in both has only the HW stat between the programmer and boiler.
Or am I missing something?
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