Home Buyers Report - G1 Electricity flagged

[AustinB1980]

Hi

Just got the homebuyers in for the home i am in the process of buying and the following has been noted
- Installation has been wired in older systle plastic covered cable
- Installation and fittings appear dated. Consumer unit does not incorporate modern circuit breakers and residual curren detection. There is some evidence of earth cross bonding. Some fittings are loose and need refixing

The house was built around 1910 and seems like the electricity unit has never been updated. I am in the process of finding an electrician to do a Home test and inspection but wanted to get views on how big people think this problem and the potential costs. Safety is my main concern anything else i would deal with at a later date, what needs to be done in order to make the electrics safe for my family to live in?

Thanks in advance

Austin

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

The system is not compliant to the current standards, that does not mean in anyway it is an unsafe installation.
But if your mind needs putting at ease, contact an electrician to do a PIR(periodic inspection report) on the installation.
that should flag up any faults.

 

[LoveRocket]

"Plastic covered cable"? Without knowing exactly what they mean by that, it's hard to say. Although if they mean, as I would assume, that it's VIR cable (rubber!) then yes, you will likely need a complete rewire - which whilst this will sting you for a few grand, moving in to a new house is the time to do it. (before it's full of furniture and decorated etc) Get it done now and you'll be good for the next 40odd years.

 

[ColJack]

knock 3 grand off your offer price for the rewire and subsequent re-decorating and you're golden..

 

[ericmark]

Hi
- Installation has been wired in older systle plastic covered cable

Not sure what systle means but if plastic then latter than 1950 and unless there are signs of plastersizer leaching likely OK

- Installation and fittings appear dated. Consumer unit does not incorporate modern circuit breakers and residual current detection.

OK it has a fuse box so real terms it means any alterations to electric system may be more expensive as for alterations a RCD will need fitting, and you need to be careful drilling walls as there is no automatic protection from lethal shock should you drill through a cable. However rules only came in 2008 so very few houses will have RCD protection on all circuits

There is some evidence of earth cross bonding. Some fittings are loose and need refixing

Cross bonding is good so forget that. Loose fittings we could be anything can't comment on that.

Assuming good wiring to change a consumer unit will likely cost somewhere around £500 and unlikely over a £1000 so really compared with total house cost very small. It would be like not buying a car because the head lamp bulb has blown.

However a rewire would cost a lot more depending on house size £3000 to £10,000 so would be like buying a car burning a load of oil and likely needing a new engine.

It's not cost of materials it's cost of labour and the disruption of lifting floor boards and chasing plaster.

No periodic inspection report can find all faults but any cases on insulation resistance being low means cables may have been overloaded and be damaged so further investigation required. Any rubber covered cables then likely will need a rewire. Any lights without earths then again at least part re-wire required. These are the expensive bits.

Damaged sockets, switches, lamp fittings even consumer unit are relativity cheap likely all corrected for less than £1000 so not worth worrying about as far as buying goes. i.e Wiring repairs cost but fittings are cheap.

Do make sure the Electrician you select has Professional Indemnity Insurance as often Public Liability Insurance will not cover as he is giving a Professional opinion as to the state of the electrical system. He does not need to be Part P or member of scheme but I would say better if he is then if something does go wrong you can complain to scheme provider.

Should not the solicitor be advising on this?

 

[securespark]

It is incredibly difficult to comment accurately without pictures of the installation.

Get a PIR & take it from there.

 

[AustinB1980]

Many thanks for the replies on the below

Should not the solicitor be advising on this?

I just got the home buyers report today and have sent onto to my Solicitor for his advice as well so hope to hear back from him soon

Tomorrow I have an electrician going round to the property to see exactly what needs to be done to make sure the property is safe to live in I am hoping that a full rewire can be avoided as it seems from all the comments that is something that costs a lot of money and is very disruptive

Also had a pretty important typo on the below

There is some evidence of earth cross bonding

Should have read "There is limited evidence of earth cross bonding"

Thanks again for the posts

 

[ericmark]

Without seeing hard to work out what would be required to up-grade earth bonding however unlikely it would be high cost.

Since you are buying I have talked about cost rather then how dangerous but if a new 17th Edition compliant consumer unit is fitted either you will not be able to use some circuits as they can't be switched on without tripping the RCD or the danger will be drastically reduced.

You can get a shock with a RCD protected circuit but unlikely to cause permanent damage as a result. The circuit trips out within 40ms so that is considered not long enough to kill anyone.

Hopefully you will get electricians report and anyone on site will give better advice than through internet.

 

[dingbat]

Is your solicitor a builder or electrician or plumber, etc? Don't expect any advice from the legal profession that is not a legal opinion - you wouldn't ask your decorator for advice on investing, would you?

Tomorrow I have an electrician going round to the property to see exactly what needs to be done to make sure the property is safe to live in.

Best of luck with that. Getting hold of a good electrician is a bit of a lottery (and, according to a 1957 book I have been browsing, always has been). Your chances of finding an electrician competent to inspect and test and accurately report to the current regulations is, I'm afraid, the search for the Holy Grail of electrickery. Fortunately, a spark with a brain cell and some common sense might just be a tad easier to come by.

But, forget about quizzing him on his insurance, what you want to know is, has he got current qualifications and relevant experience? (Quals such as City & Guilds 2382 - requirements of the 17th edition of the wiring regulations and 2391 - inspection, testing & certification.) More particularly, is he willing to spend time with you, face-to-face to discuss your options and does he sound confident about his recommendations? Middle-aged, in other words; the old boys have no clue about inspection and testing and the young uns are unlikely to have the right level of experience.

There is some evidence of earth cross bonding

Should have read "There is limited evidence of earth cross bonding"

If your electrician uses terms such as 'cross-bonding' and 'earth-bonding' then his knowledge is lacking, as both of these terms are imprecise, misunderstood and often used to hide ignorance. This is why your surveyor has used the term - he doesn't understand [I guarantee!] the purpose of either earthing or bonding, so has shoved in a term that sounds like he knows what he's talking about but proves he doesn't!

I am hoping that a full rewire can be avoided as it seems from all the comments that is something that costs a lot of money and is very disruptive

Bite the bullet. Seriously, if the house is what you are looking for (and I can tell you now that your electrician, good or bad, will almost certainly state that a rewire is the best option, for all sorts of reasons.) get the underlying infrastructure sorted before you move in. Electrical, plumbing, heating, etc. If it costs a month in a hotel, it will be money well spent for the years/decades of trouble-free/worry-free use.

If at any time you find yourself thinking "How can I avoid rewiring?" the place needs a rewire and you should re-examine your priorities.

Phew... hope that helps!

 

[LoveRocket]

Mate, if the house does indeed have VIR cabling, then it will need a rewire.

If you have it done now, the place will be empty, and all the lifting of boards and chasing out walls will be done before you've decorated and settled in. If you leave it till later, the cost and disruption will be much greater.

Just tell the selling agent you're knocking the cost of the (much needed) rewire off your offer.

 

[Stoday]

Hi
- Installation has been wired in older systle plastic covered cable
Austin

I know that general opinion is that a house inspector isn't competent to inspect the contents of your bog, but even he could distinguish between rubber and plastic.

I would expect "older systle plastic covered cable" to refer to imperial sized cable and probably OK without being replaced.

 

[LoveRocket]

You have too much faith in them Stoday.

I'll have a fiver with you that it turns out to be VIR.

 

[1john]

I am interested in how someone can advise on electrical installations and also use the term 'cross bonding' ??

You need a PIR to be sure.

Minimum things that may require doing would be main equipotential bonding and consumer unit replacment

On the other hand you could need a full re-wire.

Are there adequate sockets in the rooms, are they in ideal positions, are the light fittings and switches in locations suitable to you, or have doors been re-swung and new switches are behind them, are the lights in the middle of the rooms upstairs or near the window?

If you have any amount of these issues then you may just need a re-wire anyway, I beleive it is best to get it safe and how you want it before you move in. Don't scrimp on sockets if possible, have as many as you ever feel you would need, nothing is worse than hindsight.

 

[RF Lighting]

Older style plastic wiring could be tinned copper in PVC with no CPC to the lights.

Loads and loads of houses out there are like this.

 

[Lectrician]

Yup - we do work for a disabled bathroom conversion company and come across this regularly - twin cpc'less T+E or old VIR. We usually run a new shower circuit, so also run a new lighting circuit to the loft for just the bathroom.