honeywell 4073 diverter valve. Ist this right.

[Softus]

Not really irritated Softus. I just presumed that to have a reply from someone else who has experienced the same problems as Giblets MIGHT satisfy your curiosity on the subject.

No - it made me even more curious.

However if you are questioning the findings then say so.

I'm questioning the findings. It's the way I'm made.

If you have a better suggestion as to why the rubber swelled then please do inform us all.

If I had one then I'd certainly offer it. But I don't, which is why I'm looking for more information.

Maybe you're different, but when I hear of something new that interests me, I gather more information so that I can understand it. I said at the outset that it was news to me, and I've never pretended anything different.

I don't have a problem with you being irritated - it's pretty mundane, as most people seem not to be able to cope with their 'findings' being questioned, however civil the manner of the questioning. You say that you've never had the time to investigate; well I don't have the time to pander to your petty frustrations.

 

[corgiman]

Got to say my curiousity is peaked now as I have never come across this "swollen ball" syndrome (well expect that night the lovely mrs corgiman saw me chatting a the large breasted barmaid at my local its wasnt my fault her breasts kept staring at my eyes )

I thought the balls were made of a inert plastic?

I will be calling honeywell today to ask.

 

[gas4you]

I was always under the impression that it was the very old balls that could cause the problem (anyone over 60 ) and not just with these valves. The new ones I believe are of a different material so as to prevent this. I thought this was one of the reasons why you still had a bypass on a 3 port valve as well

 

[namsag]

Tried some Fernox last night purely for scientific purposes rubbed it in thourghly and results where , Balls didn`t swell at all just got a bit itchy and nippy.

Seriously though people where on recently saying fernox had affected O rings in boilers and formula changed if that is case it sounds like it could well have affected the balls

 

[giblets]

CM, the balls are actually made of a hard rubber compound.

They are also supposed to rotate on the shaft to aid seating on the ports but the swollen one I have changed have been absolutely solid with no movement whatever. They have also proved very difficult to remove from the housing indicating severe swelling.

 

[Softus]

Rumours are so much fun. You don't need any basis in fact, or even anything more than minimal knowledge. Just say that you heard something from some bloke, and get that ball rolling.

Did you know that the increasing oestrogen in our piped water supply is making male iron fittings turn female?

 

[pannierstan]

If anyone remembers the old Tower valves with the red cover I have had the paddle in those do the same thing, just less frequently as they are not as popular as the Honeywells.

Can I also with fear of being shot down mention that we also have very soft water in my area, dont know if that might be a contributor to the problem.
I olny add this because I also have problems with DHW diaphragms going mushy and generally breaking down. Vokera excell is a particular problem and Giannoni valves also and they only have clean water running through them

Stan

 

[nickso]

I olny add this because I also have problems with DHW diaphragms going mushy and generally breaking down. Vokera excell is a particular problem and Giannoni valves also and they only have clean water running through them

Stan

we have the same problem round here stan.

some excells and maxins are getting only 6-7 months out of a brand new diaphragm. easy money though

 

[giblets]

Softus, did you have any joy with Fernox?

 

[Softus]

Dear Fernox

Please can you guide me towards any data sheets that are published on your MB-1 and F1 products?

I need to determine whether there are any materials that can be adversely affected by the use of a chemical corrosion inhibitor.

Of particular concern are the rubber (or similar) materials used in push-fit O rings and in Honeywell motorized valves.

Thanks in anticipation.

Regards
(name withheld)

Subject: RE: Fernox and compatible materials
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 16:42:36 +0100

Dear (name withheld),

Thank you for your email regarding compatibility of push-fit O rings and Honeywell motorized valves.

We can confirm that all Fernox Protector and Restorer products are fully compatible with push fit fittings and also Honeywell motorized valves.

We trust you will find this information of help and assistance.

Kind regards,

(name withheld)

 

[Softus]

More information received today...

Please can you tell me what chemicals are incompatible with the 'rubber' ball inside a Honeywell MZV?

I'm particularly interested in knowing which chemical corrosion inhibitors can be used in a system containing Honeywell MZVs.

The valve is used in standard home heating (radiator, DHW cylinder coil, under-floor), the valve has been in use for many, many years – we do not have a ‘can be used with’ chart or table – it is down to the manufacturer of the inhibitor to advise any detrimental effects.

Fernox, Sentinel, etc should be able to advise which ones are compatible & have been used.

Since the inhibitor mfr could change their ‘recipe’ , it is they who will know

Hello Technical Support

Thanks for this information.

So that I can ask the inhibitor manufacturers the right question, please can you tell me the composition of the 'rubber' ball used in the valve?

Thanks

Regrettably this information is not available, please advise why you require the information, as already stated the valve has been in use for many years & companies providing chemicals for the home heating industry are aware which ones are appropriate.

Thank you for your enquiry.

Thank you for your reply.

The question arose because I became aware of some plumbers claiming that they'd had to replace the 'rubber' ball on some Honeywell valves, owing to swelling of the ball. These plumbers believed that Fernox MB-1 (or equivalent) was the cause of this, and that Sentinol X100 didn't have the same effect.

I'm not a big fan of rumour-mongering, so I decided to ask both Honeywell and Fernox a question about compatibility, so that I had the facts at my disposal.

The reply from Fernox said, and I quote:

"We can confirm that all Fernox Protector and Restorer products are fully compatible with push fit fittings and also Honeywell motorized valves."

I wasn't expecting the complementary statement from Honeywell, and I'm not trying to trap anyone into answering something they don't want to, but I did expect some indication that Honeywell has tested the ball material with different chemical inhibitors, so I'm a bit perplexed at your non-committal reply.

The details you have replied with are useful and I will pass your email to our specialist dept in case they can add any further data.
regards

Thanks - I look forward to hearing what they have to say!

Have had reply from our product specialists – there is nothing more they can add.

So there you have it.

Well, when I say "you have it", I really mean "you don't have it".

 

[Soggy_weetabix]

BTW if you have Fernox inhibitor in the system this has been known to cause the rubber ball in the valve to swell and not seat correctly.

That's news to me. Do you have any more information about this?

I must have filled a hundred systems in the last 6 months with fernox.
Never caused swelling of the ball.

In fact, its never happened to me.

I do doubt this comment giblets.

David

 

[pannierstan]

Has anyone got an opinion on the soft water issue then because I have just changed another one this week.
Must admit its a rare occasion these days but I still carry one on the van
This one wasnt the worst I have seen but it was swollen enough that the valve could not wind to heating only and make the switches and was also passing on DHW only

Stan

 

[ChrisR]

I've certainly had swollen balls, which you can often feel at the spindle if you put a small spanner on it.
There was a chemist type from Fernox at a corgi day or somesuch so I collared him on this. He admitted that there used to be a problem with several inhibitors (including MB-1 ) but that it had been fixed in their products. The formula has changed many times over the years. Note for example you used to have to use Copal for anything with aluminium in it, but not now.

Some boiler manufacturers (notably German) say inhibitors should not be used because of problems with the seals swelling, but you have to wonder if they're being pessimistic about the inhibitor.

You also find O rings in tap water flow restrictors swelling up sometimes, with no chems present. I left the last one I removed to dry out, and it shrank back to its proper size. This is London - moderately hard water.

 

[giblets]

To be honest Softus, the replies you have received from Honeywell & Fernox are exactly what I would have expected. Neither company is going to rubbish each other's products and would certainly not admit any problem to a casual enquirer (no disrespect to your goodself).

I feel, from other forum member's posts, that there is a problem but the chances of getting to the bottom of it are virtually nil.

Soggy_weetabix - just because you have never had a problem does not mean it does not exist eleswhere - I therefore stand by my original comment (which is bourne out to an extent by ChrisR's last post)