Horse power, why do we need so much?

[Avocet]

I thought it was called a kitten? or Simaur?

The Rebel was the Kitten's predecessor. Their first attempt at a small fibreglass 4-wheeler.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relia...Rebel estate was,and Rialto models until 1998.

Mine had the 750cc engine in it, but I was young, reckless and hungry for power, so I put an 850cc engine from a later three wheeler in there. In absolute terms though, it was still a very slow car! Mine was the estate, but it started life as a van. My dad added the seats and windows in the back. About a decade later, I put a Ford 1600 Crossflow in it. THAT made it interesting!

Reliant's other 4-wheeler of the period was the Scimitar. That was a VERY different animal. Princess Anne had several of them! They used the old 3 litre Essex Ford V6. They were WAY beyond my means back then. I did buy one, many years later, and it was a big disappointment.

 

[ericmark]

Think mine was a Regal the one fools and horses call a Robin but is not. I remember sticking it on the rolling road at college and turning it started at 24 BHP got it to 28 BHP at wheels, just by setting float level and ignition timing.

No one else had a car that week so tuned mine.

 

[empip]

Owen Greenwood's (or a copy?) mini three wheeler (actually four where two count as one !!)
Helmets to the ground ! http://maximummini.blogspot.com/2015/09/greenwoods-sidecar-at-its-prime.html
Scourge of the mid sixties chairioteers !
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[ericmark]

The McCandless Mule car was also one of the 50's oddities,

I was working in Belfast and visited the museum, it was fascinating. But although around in the 50's I don't remember it. I was only born in 1951.

I do remember the three wheel mini, and remember it could not pass the crash test, so only a few built. The whole thing was under 7 cwt and no reverse gear, so the cars were rather basic. But being so light 60 MPG was possible. I remember getting a Yamaha RD 200 to go to work on, and complaining that the MPG was not as good as the old three wheeler and I got wet when it rained.

I seem to remember one Toyota car which could hit the 90 MPG, but short lived, I think the regulations again got rid of it. The Lada also went due to regulations, the early ones did better than the Skoda MPG but some problem with fuel injection so when the carburettor went as it could not comply with emissions so good by Lada.

 

[PetruHygric]

It has always been a mindset for us that the faster the car is the better.

 

[ericmark]

Yes same with diggers I suppose, fastest diesel engine car was the JCB max, not sure if it still holds the record, the guys building it could use anything they wanted as long as it used the new JCB engine, 350 MPH. The scary thing was could not find a gear box to give the range, but allowed a push start so it was push started to 50 MPH with a JCB before he could let the clutch out.

They did squeeze a little extra out of the engines, yes it had two, think normal is around 160 BHP but they got 750 BHP out of each however on the record breaking run only used 650 BHP out of each.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

Many (maybe even most) of us don't actually 'need' cars with very powerful engines and rarely use them in the capacity in which they were designed. I'm nearing 50 my first car was an old 1.3 Cortina, goodness knows what BHP it was actually putting out. Underpowered but still got me from A to B. My first powerful car was a Cavalier GSi 150BHP (quite a lot in the early 90s), then more recently I've had Seat Leon diesels around the same power. Did I actually need cars with that amount of power, including the one I own now? Probably not. They do however come into their own when overtaking and/or cruising on the motorway, or when having some (legal) fun on twisty B roads The high majority of my driving is now town based. When I eventually change my current car, the logical thing will be to go for a smaller engine lower BHP model. Whether I will or not remains to be seen!

If we're being honest, most of these powerful cars only get to 'go fast' from a junction/set of lights to the next junction/set of lights, and even then only up to the speed limit for that road assuming you're a law abiding citizen. So what's the point. And with more and more pedestrianisation, 20 zones etc, surely the need for massive engines will only decrease?

Also, and yes I know they're produced to be enticing, many cars ads to this day still make me laugh. Showing the car driving around deserted streets ... yeah cause that's the driving experience most of us have on a daily basis

Sorry if I went a bit off topic!

 

[mointainwalker]

Just reading an early road-test of the new Mercedes S class today. Largest engine is now 3 litre six-cylinder ,down from a V8 as the usual engine in the last model, with a six-litre V12 then topping the tree.

 

[ericmark]

I was looking at wife's car a Jaguar XE a 164 BHP I think, and the Kia Sorento about the same, but the Jag is far lighter so preforms well, and does better MPG to the Kia, the latter bought to tow the caravan, and I think back to when we towed a caravan with an Austin Gypsy with around 65 BHP and I wonder why I need that extra 100 BHP, with the Gypsy I towed a caravan up Sutton Bank not permitted today, in 3rd low, then went back for another caravan stuck on the hill, only got into second low with that one, that is a 1:4 or 25% hill on the A170 so if 65 BHP will tow a Sprite Musketeer up with two gears in reserve why does one need more power? And hair pin bend half way up, so a limit on speed.

As to if Jag would have towed up that I don't know, but a 1.3 Mariana failed, however I note the towing capacity of the manual XE is less than the automatic, so having an eight speed auto clearly helps. And the old Hillman Husky (Minx style) was very good at towing because it was derived from a van so had a low ratio for first gear. And to be frank easier towing with that to the kia Sorento which is clearly for gear ratios designed to cruse at 60 MPH at least, so at 50 MPH no torque so slightest hill and changing down, at 60 the Euroroute E22 or A55 at Dobshill has a reasonable steep climb, but since approaching at 60 MPH it will maintain that speed up the whole hill. And I suppose that is a big change modern diesel rev range 2000 to 4000 RPM but the petrol was 1500 to 6000 RPM so one ends up playing tunes on the gearbox with modern diesel.

 

[Mottie]

Think mine was a Regal the one fools and horses call a Robin but is not. I remember sticking it on the rolling road at college and turning it started at 24 BHP got it to 28 BHP at wheels, just by setting float level and ignition timing.

No one else had a car that week so tuned mine.

My mums first car was a Reliant regal as you could drive a three wheeler unaccompanied with 'L' plates although technically you were supposed to block off reverse gear - it was this shape one:

We bought it as a non-runner for £4.50 (or £4 10/- in old money) and luckily it was only three streets away as we towed it home in reverse. I remember it had a side valve engine, no water pump (cooling system worked on convection), no heater - you had to slide open a flap on either side the transmission tunnel to get warm air (and oil fumes) directly from the engine/exhaust. When me and my dad changed the clutch on it, we had to unscrew the wooden floor and remove the gearbox from inside the car. It wasn’t much bigger than a battery and the clutch plate was the size of a tea-saucer. We replaced just the disc and I think that cost 10 bob (50p). I had it on its sills more than once when taking corners too fast. Never rolled it though!

 

[ericmark]

I seem to remember the regal I had was over head valve aluminium engine block with wet liners, it did have a water pump but heater never worked for more than a few miles, it would air lock, I would bleed it and would work for another 10 miles then stop again. Old one you show I think Austin 7 engine made under licence, friend had a Morris 8 with a washing machine pump spring loaded onto the belt to work heater.

I know the early 3 wheelers needed the reverse blocked off or had no reverse to be drive on motor cycle licence, but latter 7 cwt was the criteria and some motor cycles designed to be used with side cars would have reverse gear.

But the 650 Bonny motor cycle would do 100 MPH and 60 MPG but I had the more modern Yamaha RD200 which had about 70 MPH top speed and also 60 MPG and it did not seem to matter how I rode it could not get more, which was about the same performance as the Reliant regal so remember looking for another one, but never found one.

However the French 2CV this that was a taxation class, were also getting 60 MPG with the twin cylinder air cooled engine, although made as a 400 cc version for France in the UK seemed only found the 600 cc versions, latter there was a 1050 cc version seem to remember, so went to the French super light cars, Morris Minor same engine as Mini but more MPG around 45. But really the motorways killed the little car, they could not sustain 70 MPH for an extended time without breaking down.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I know the early 3 wheelers needed the reverse blocked off or had no reverse to be drive on motor cycle licence, but latter 7 cwt was the criteria and some motor cycles designed to be used with side cars would have reverse gear.

I remember it as if you had a full motorcycle license, you could have a reverse gear. Perhaps you were not allowed a reverse gear when on L plates in a three-wheeler?

I remember never needing any driving lessons - motorbike on L plates, pass that test, then it served as full license for three- wheels. Three wheels was quite similar to four, so after time-served on three-wheels, do four-wheel test.

 

[ericmark]

I remember when there was 6 month waiting list for a test, and my wife took test in an automatic and failed, so applied for another test and month latter applied for another before taking the first, idea was if passed in auto then take second in manual if failed then take in auto again. Well she passed, but we did not have a manual, so needed a driving school to get a manual car to take test in, so phoned up one for one hour before test then test I seem to remember, but the reaction of the driving instructor when asking for directions when my wife said it's OK I'll drive to you, which sticks in memory.

But college lecturer had the bond mini, motorcycle engine and whole engine turned to steer it, been clearly driving it for a lot of years, and picked up bad habits on the way, and failed the 4 wheel driving test.

I remember doing my HGV, and seem to remember weeks intensive training before test, and yes I had picked up loads of bad habits. Never really used the licence after all that, can count on fingers how many times I drove a wagon in the UK, and in the end never bothered taking medical as a result. I was never cab happy.

 

[Nige F]

My first car was an old 1.3 Cortina, goodness knows what BHP it was actually putting out. Underpowered but still got me from A to B.

Sorry if I went a bit off topic!

Better than a Mk 1 - 1.2

 

[mointainwalker]

I remember when there was 6 month waiting list for a test, and my wife took test in an automatic and failed, so applied for another test and month latter applied for another before taking the first, idea was if passed in auto then take second in manual if failed then take in auto again.

Sorry, don't understand that.