House fully rewired in trunking

[EFLImpudence]

I am just saying I do not think 'normal' houses have escape routes as defined which require signs and metal cable fixings.

Mainly because 'normal houses' do not have cabling methods which could endanger occupants or firemen in the event of a fire.

 

[JohnW2]

Mainly because 'normal houses' do not have cabling methods which could endanger occupants or firemen in the event of a fire.

Indeed - and I'm not all that convinced that many buildings which are not 'normal houses' do, either, do they?

Kind Regards, John

 

[John D v2.0]

I am just saying I do not think 'normal' houses have escape routes as defined which require signs and metal cable fixings.

Mainly because 'normal houses' do not have cabling methods which could endanger occupants or firemen in the event of a fire.

Ah I see, yes you're right about the signs, but surely not about the cable fixings. However as you say that's not likely to come up (except for the ops situation!)
Common sense I suppose it what's needed.
Cheers, John

 

[Risteard]

I am just saying I do not think 'normal' houses have escape routes as defined which require signs and metal cable fixings.

Mainly because 'normal houses' do not have cabling methods which could endanger occupants or firemen in the event of a fire.

They absolutely do. No-one suggested that this means that emergency lighting is likely to be required or exit boxes. It does mean that wiring systems must be protected against premature collapse though.

Wiring above plasterboard ceilings will not be affected by this (the plasterboard should contain it for a suitably long period of time) - the problem is mini-trunking around the walls.

 

[JohnW2]

Wiring above plasterboard ceilings will not be affected by this (the plasterboard should contain it for a suitably long period of time) - the problem is mini-trunking around the walls.

It would seem fairly unlikely that there would be enough slack in the cables for them to become a significant impediment to escape if mini-trunking on walls were to be damaged by fire. I would have thought that it would primarily only be horizontal runs over surface trunking on ceilings that would be a significant issue.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Iggifer]

It would seem fairly unlikely that there would be enough slack in the cables for them to become a significant impediment to escape if mini-trunking on walls were to be damaged by fire. I would have thought that it would primarily only be horizontal runs over surface trunking on ceilings that would be a significant issue.

Kind Regards, John

A switch from 1200 up the wall and across to a pendant in a hall/landing would be long enough to present a hazard.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Only needs one metal clip in the corner.

 

[JohnW2]

A switch from 1200 up the wall and across to a pendant in a hall/landing would be long enough to present a hazard.

Sure - but, as I said, only because of the horizontal bit on the ceiling. If it were just 'on the wall', going to an accessory or fitting, or disappearing through ceiling or under floor, then I don't think there would usually be any issue.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Only needs one metal clip in the corner.

Indeed, and I think that may well all that would be required to satisfy Amd3.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

In real terms if the trunking will stick to the wall for 6 hours then using corkin to make the trunking look better will also stick it to the wall far better as well. As a temporary measure I used sticky back trunking to put a two way light up for my mother, used my finger and filler to make edges look a little better. When house was rewired it was taken down, and it took some taking down damaging the plaster so the wall had to be repaired and repainted.

It does not take long with a PVC glove and a tube of filler to make the trunking both look better and stick it to the wall very well. OK under new amendment 3 you need the metal clips inside the trunking where it goes over doors. OK there is an issue where we now use plastic plugs for the screws, the old type of wall plug was banned.

How does one work out how long a plastic raw plug will last in a fire before it melts and the cables fall? Plaster board is OK you get those screw in raw plugs made of aluminium, but cutting a bit of wood and hamming it into a hole has long gone. So what do you use as a raw plug over door ways?

 

[John D v2.0]

We should remember this rule was brought in because the fire service reported their breathing apparatus getting tangled in it when they were rescuing people from fires. Eventually one firefighter actually died from this, which led to the new rules. Whether you are a fan of rules or not, if safety is your aim, it's probably worth a metal fixing or two on each run of cable.

 

[Risteard]

OK there is an issue where we now use plastic plugs for the screws, the old type of wall plug was banned.

That is debateable. An ordinary plastic rawl plug can survive in a wall in fire conditions for much longer than you might think. Although other types of fixings may be more appropriate.

 

[ericmark]

That is debateable. An ordinary plastic rawl plug can survive in a wall in fire conditions for much longer than you might think. Although other types of fixings may be more appropriate.

Yes but the point is we don't know how long, so we don't know if allowed or not. I fully accept escape routes should not get entangled with wires while people are trying to escape, but for fire crew to re-enter the property to see if some one remains is going well past escape route times.

I have just had my mothers house re-wired, it was agreed that in the corners trunking would be allowed as there was already trunking in the corners, but no trunking was to be used away from corners, however they sneaked one past me behind a wardrobe, when I came to correct, it did not need any heat for the red rawl plug to pull out of the wall, in brick they grip well, but where over 50% of the plug is in plaster then it is easy to pull them out, it was harder to remove the T2 trunking with self adhesive backing and corking around the edges than the T2 with rawl plugs.

In hind sight my temporary two way lighting would have been better with rawl plugs than using self adhesive as rawl plug holes are easier to fill than the line of plaster which came off with the redundant T2 trunking.

So using a gloved finger and simply rounding the edges of T2 trunking with decorators corking makes the stuff stick better than rawl plugs, although unlikely to stay on in a fire.

 

[skenk]

It's CAULK, not cork. And if the installer didn't drill deep enough to get the fixing into brick that is not the fault of the rawlplug

 

[JohnW2]

Yes but the point is we don't know how long, so we don't know if allowed or not. .... when I came to correct, it did not need any heat for the red rawl plug to pull out of the wall, in brick they grip well, but where over 50% of the plug is in plaster then it is easy to pull them out....

Yes, but even in the context of a fire, I think it would take a very long time before there was any risk of a plastic plug which was (as it should be) in brick/block getting hot enough to melt - and, even if it did, there would usually be nothing trying to 'pull it out' of the wall. As far as I can see, the only significant issue (if there is one at all) relates to horizontal runs of cable on ceilings (where gravity is a bit of a factor) and, unless the ceiling is concrete, one wouldn't (shouldn't) be using 'wall plugs' for that, anyway!

Kind Regards, John