How do I plaster behind double socket?

[Ambergreen45]

How do I plaster behind a double socket? Do I unscrew the back box a little or do I remove the back box completely and put all cables into a choc box?

If using a choc box, do I put all twisted cables of the same kind in one end of a terminal? The double socket has 2 twisted red cables, 2 twisted black and 2 twisted green/yellow.

Thank you!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

How do I plaster behind a double socket? Do I unscrew the back box a little or do I remove the back box completely and put all cables into a choc box?

Why do you want to plaster behind the box?

It's customary to plaster around them....

If using a choc box, do I put all twisted cables of the same kind in one end of a terminal? The double socket has 2 twisted red cables, 2 twisted black and 2 twisted green/yellow.

The cables should not be twisted, but now that they are, unless you have enough slack to cut them back to where they are straight, you'll do more harm than good if you try to untwist them.

 

[Ambergreen45]

Why do you want to plaster behind the box?

It's customary to plaster around them....

I've been removing plaster on that wall with a cold chisel and club hammer and the plaster is a bit loose and brittle all around the socket and most probably even at the back. A few very small bits of plaster managed to find their way into the double socket. The socket is still secure on that wall, I believe because the 2 screws are fixed through the loose plaster and into part of the brickwork. But if I can just clean the socket and then plaster around it, that would save me a job.

 

[sparkwright]

Do I unscrew the back box a little or do I remove the back box completely and put all cables into a choc box?

I take it the back box is a white surface box (pattress) as opposed to a flushed in (metal usually) recessed box.

If it is a surface box, for a decent job you would need to loosen or remove the box to plaster behind it.

If it is a flush box, you would need to loosen or remove just the socket to plaster around it.

Be certain to turn off the power. Also be certain where all the wires go. Write it down or take a photo before you start if in doubt.

When refitting the socket front, make sure the wires are securely fitted in the terminals, and the terminals screws are nicely tightened.

If any doubt, get an electrician remove and re-fit the socket. You may know someone who knows someone who will do this at a fair price.

 

[Taylortwocities]

If the wall is being re-plastered, now is the time to throw away that nasty surface box and sink a metal mounting box in the wall. Then it will look much nicer when the plastering is done.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If the wall is being re-plastered, now is the time to throw away that nasty surface box and sink a metal mounting box in the wall. Then it will look much nicer when the plastering is done.

 

[securespark]

you'll do more harm than good if you try to untwist them.

Is that what he plans to do?

 

[JohnW2]

you'll do more harm than good if you try to untwist them.

Is that what he plans to do?

Not at all. He proposed 'putting the twisted ends' into a choc box. However, having decided to tell him that they shouldn't have been twisted, BAS then presumably realised that he really had to qualify that by telling him not to untwist them, unless they could be cut back and terminated without twisting!

Kind Regards, John

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

If the back box is loose then it would require to be fitted securely.
Which could be a matter of replacing screw and wall plugs, or even re-drilling for new ones (but be careful not to cause cable damage, whilst doing this)
But it seems that you have may caused the plaster to become loose behind box and if you are at a plastering stage it would be logical to remove box and repair damaged plaster or as already mentioned sink socket in to wall, for nice flush finish.
The safety procedures to be taken when doing this, would be to isolate circuit and prove dead by means of an approved and working voltage indicator.
Then remove cables from plate, it may well be that the cables are twisted together, it could also be that the cable use two different entry points in to box, so it could then mean that cables would need to be untwisted so cable and back box can be separated.
If they do enter same knock out hole then, untwisting could be avoided.
In the long run if you are considering new sunken boxes, it could well be that the cables will not go through one knock-out. so the twist in cable would then need to be undone.
It would not be wise to have these cables exposed and live, whilst performing the the tasks of any work to fit back box, cables, plaster and plate.
So if using power tools then another source would be required. And if it is required that the circuit does require to be energised at some stage whilst still not within the socket enclosure, you would require to join up like conductors and then enclose them within a safe insulated enclosure to prevent accidental contact.

 

[Ambergreen45]

I take it the back box is a white surface box (pattress) as opposed to a flushed in (metal usually) recessed box.

It is both... I've removed the 2 gang surface box. There is a sort of metal box in the wall the size of 1 gang and the cables come out of a metal conduit. I was surprised not to find the old white outer seath. I've wrapped the cables temporarily with a grey outer seath cut from a 6mm cable and put insulating tape around the lot to make it safer. The cables are now in a choc box. I wanted to cover the hole in the metal box to prevent anything from getting in since there was still a few millimetres of red and black cable I could not reach and cover adequately just coming out of the conduit inside, so I've cut a rubble thick plastic bag, squeezed it and put it in the whole (that's all I could think of).

He proposed 'putting the twisted ends' into a choc box. However, having decided to tell him that they shouldn't have been twisted, BAS then presumably realised that he really had to qualify that by telling him not to untwist them, unless they could be cut back and terminated without twisting!

I've managed to carefully untwist the cables. I had to do it because I had to remove a damaged 1 gang surface box next to the 2 gang socket. Having a very close look at the end of the mains cables, there are minor signs from the pliers they used many years ago to twist them when it use to be practice to to it, and also from the terminal screws in the socket, but they don't look damaged. Should that be ok?

Another question I would like to ask. Still working in the same spot but immediately on the other side of the outside wall I've unscrewed an external junction box and noticed the cables of the armoured cable were thinner than 2.5mm, probably 1.5mm. That black armoured underground cable leads to my old garage about 40 metres away where I have a light and a plug. I rarely use electricity in the garage. For that purpose, which fuse shall I put in the new FCU that will be next to the 2 gang socket in the house?

 

[JohnW2]

It is both... I've removed the 2 gang surface box. There is a sort of metal box in the wall the size of 1 gang and the cables come out of a metal conduit.

It sounds as if an original 'flush' single socket had been 'adapted' with a 2-gang surface one over the years. The 'nice'/neat solution would be to replace the embedded single metal box with a 2-gang one, and then fit the socket flush.

I was surprised not to find the old white outer seath. I've wrapped the cables temporarily with a grey outer seath cut from a 6mm cable and put insulating tape around the lot to make it safer.

'Single cables' within conduit are one of the standard, and acceptable, ways to do wiring. There is no need for an outer sheath when these single cables are within conduit or accessories/boxes.

I've managed to carefully untwist the cables. I had to do it because I had to remove a damaged 1 gang surface box next to the 2 gang socket. Having a very close look at the end of the mains cables, there are minor signs from the pliers they used many years ago to twist them when it use to be practice to to it, and also from the terminal screws in the socket, but they don't look damaged. Should that be ok?

Not really. Once conductors have been twisted and then untwisted, they can have developed weakness which can cause them to snap, for example when terminal screws are tightened onto them. If there is enough spare cable for you to cut off the previously twisted ends and 'start again', that would be fine. If there's not enough spare cable, things could be more difficult. However, if you were to do as has been suggested, and replace the surface socket with a flush one, that should result in some spare cable for you to play with.

Kind Regards, John

 

[OwainDIYer]

It is both... I've removed the 2 gang surface box. There is a sort of metal box in the wall the size of 1 gang and the cables come out of a metal conduit.

It sounds as if an original 'flush' single socket had been 'adapted' with a 2-gang surface one over the years. The 'nice'/neat solution would be to replace the embedded single metal box with a 2-gang one, and then fit the socket flush.

But rather awkward to remove the existing flush box from the conduit.

One of the single-to-double 'converter' sockets might be neater, and not need a new box, and work with the length of cable that's available.

 

[OwainDIYer]

There is a sort of metal box in the wall the size of 1 gang and the cables come out of a metal conduit. I was surprised not to find the old white outer seath.

That's normal and perfectly acceptable, the installation has been wired in singles in conduit.

 

[JohnW2]

The 'nice'/neat solution would be to replace the embedded single metal box with a 2-gang one, and then fit the socket flush.

But rather awkward to remove the existing flush box from the conduit.

Yes, possibly. I suppose it really depends on how the conduit is attached. Given that it sounds as if the plaster is probably going to fall off when he removes the surface box, dealing with the conduit connection may actually be quite easy!

One of the single-to-double 'converter' sockets might be neater, and not need a new box, and work with the length of cable that's available.

True - that's really just a slightly more elegant version of what he already has.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

There is a sort of metal box in the wall the size of 1 gang and the cables come out of a metal conduit. I was surprised not to find the old white outer seath.

That's normal and perfectly acceptable, the installation has been wired in singles in conduit.

Indeed ...

'Single cables' within conduit are one of the standard, and acceptable, ways to do wiring. There is no need for an outer sheath when these single cables are within conduit or accessories/boxes.

Kind Regards, John