How Hard Is A Loft Conversion DIY Style

[leeco]

Reading fmck's post sugges tsthat he converted the loft (ie just used the existing roof void) rather than building a dormer. A loft without the dormer is hard enough, but with a dormer.....

Why is a dormer that much harder - It is just some wood nailed together to give the shape

It has steel supporting the weight of the dormer or mine does anyway.

 

[DeludedAussie]

Just nearly finished mine. Started it in Nov last year and it was a hip roof and built it up to a gable end totaly ripped the roof off and put a new roof on with a full dormer to the rear. Me and my dad and brother did everything exept fit the new stairs. We even lowered all the ceilings on the 1st floor to gain another 9" head room up there. But it was all worth it for 1 big bedroom 1 small bedroom and a bigish bathroom. I just need to fit loads of firedoors to get it all passed by BC.

I have also built a single and double storey extention too and if I had a choice I would pick single storey extention but both are 2 total different jobs.

How much did you spend? Did you do the steel structural work?

What did you find was the hardest part ?

 

[DeludedAussie]

As someone who plans and specifies extensions and loft conversions I wouldn't ever dare DIYing my own.

I'm fully aware of the depth and breadth of regulations that need to be met, as well as the physical requirements for building additions that are watertight, provide appropriate insulation and well... don't fall down!

There are some things you can cut corners on in life... but there is really no good reason to not get a professional with adequate experience to do a good job.

You wouldn't go to the dentists and give yourself a filling. You wouldn't jump on the underground... and push the tube driver out the way. Anyone can call themselves a dentist, a train driver or a builder... but not everyone has the knowledge or experience to ACTUALLY do the work.

I've had clients that often look for ways to trim the amount of money they spend on extensions. This includes things like trying to micro manage a builder... a client might try to provide lots of items of free issue, but because they dont understand the process and timescales they leave the builder waiting around not working (and wondering why they are still getting charged). In short, trying to save money on build work often ends up costing them more - they just don't realise it.

At the end of the day its not about getting the "cheapest"... its about getting the "best value" for your money.

I agree about best value - What I do not understand is why you think loft conversions are so hard.

It almost feels like a cult that builders are better but the truth is that most builders are not the sharpest minds and simply follow instructions

There must be a well documented step by step guide to loft conversions which spells out what needs to be done - The book loft conversions haynes manual is a good start to that.

With building control giving practical advice I fail to see why it is so complicated

 

[leeco]

Just nearly finished mine. Started it in Nov last year and it was a hip roof and built it up to a gable end totaly ripped the roof off and put a new roof on with a full dormer to the rear. Me and my dad and brother did everything exept fit the new stairs. We even lowered all the ceilings on the 1st floor to gain another 9" head room up there. But it was all worth it for 1 big bedroom 1 small bedroom and a bigish bathroom. I just need to fit loads of firedoors to get it all passed by BC.

I have also built a single and double storey extention too and if I had a choice I would pick single storey extention but both are 2 total different jobs.

How much did you spend? Did you do the steel structural work?

What did you find was the hardest part ?

We spent around £15k and yes we did all the steel work. The hardest part was lowering all the ceilings in the 1st floor but thats not something most people would do.

 

[kingandy2nd]

We spent around £15k and yes we did all the steel work. The hardest part was lowering all the ceilings in the 1st floor but thats not something most people would do.

Got any pictures mate?

 

[leeco]

We spent around £15k and yes we did all the steel work. The hardest part was lowering all the ceilings in the 1st floor but thats not something most people would do.

Got any pictures mate?

In my profile under Loft album there is a few pics.

 

[tony1851]

With building control giving practical advice I fail to see why it is so complicated

Building inspectors are not there to give practical advice; they merely check that the work complies.
You may get some who are reasonably helpful and may even suggest ways of solving any problems which arise, but that is not their job, and most just stick to the rules. Afer all, if they suggest something and it goes wrong, they could be in trouble. Why should an inspector take on that risk when not being paid?

 

[limerockconstruction]

As someone who plans and specifies extensions and loft conversions I wouldn't ever dare DIYing my own.

I'm fully aware of the depth and breadth of regulations that need to be met, as well as the physical requirements for building additions that are watertight, provide appropriate insulation and well... don't fall down!

There are some things you can cut corners on in life... but there is really no good reason to not get a professional with adequate experience to do a good job.

You wouldn't go to the dentists and give yourself a filling. You wouldn't jump on the underground... and push the tube driver out the way. Anyone can call themselves a dentist, a train driver or a builder... but not everyone has the knowledge or experience to ACTUALLY do the work.

I've had clients that often look for ways to trim the amount of money they spend on extensions. This includes things like trying to micro manage a builder... a client might try to provide lots of items of free issue, but because they dont understand the process and timescales they leave the builder waiting around not working (and wondering why they are still getting charged). In short, trying to save money on build work often ends up costing them more - they just don't realise it.

At the end of the day its not about getting the "cheapest"... its about getting the "best value" for your money.

I agree about best value - What I do not understand is why you think loft conversions are so hard.

It almost feels like a cult that builders are better but the truth is that most builders are not the sharpest minds and simply follow instructions

There must be a well documented step by step guide to loft conversions which spells out what needs to be done - The book loft conversions haynes manual is a good start to that.

With building control giving practical advice I fail to see why it is so complicated

The IT bloke thinks builders are a cult, and that we are not the sharpest minds - why are you on here asking for advice from the very people you criticise?

If its that easy, get on with it yourself, if memory serves me correctly from your previous (rather rude) posts, you had trouble wiring up a light switch - I doubt you'll have too much trouble with a loft conversion though mate.

 

[Nige F]

[The IT bloke thinks builders are a cult, and that we are not the sharpest minds - .

Well some builder built Stonehenge for the Druid Cult

 

[luisdesign]

It almost feels like a cult that builders are better but the truth is that most builders are not the sharpest minds and simply follow instructions

It is a massive fallacy that just because a builder may not have had a university education that they can't spark together their brain cells.

It's also a fallacy that they simply follow instructions. They follow designs and specifications which are there to explain and detail the level, finish and end product, but then it is down to them to work out how to produce and deliver this. They are also responsible for the site and people management and a good builder will display elements of project management and quantity surveying to name but two additional areas.

I think the reason that many people think builders are simpletons is because anyone can have a crack at it... and if they manage it the once some think they can make money out of doing it on other peoples property too... until they get out of their depth and make a run for it.

Builders get a bad name, and builders are easy to come by, good builders are harder.

I would consider leeco as the exception rather than the rule when it comes to DIYing an extension. And suppose that he and his team have had some experience with joinery or this level of DIY, as well as getting appropriately qualified help for certain areas such as electrical wiring and central heating etc.

Having said that, a cost of approx 15k is not a ground breakingly significant saving over having a builder do the work I imagine that in Yorkshire, for a relatively small addition as in his pictures, you could probably have a builder complete the works for somewhere between 20-22k.... and have the work complete in three or maybe four weeks. Plus have all the work guaranteed. (We saw that leeco has been doing it since Nov 2012, and is yet to clarify if he has factored in their own labour costs - which whilst you may not pay should always be used to calculate build costs)

His extension in London would probably cost more (but then, so would a DIY build because material and delivery costs are higher too). But importantly, I know builders in the London area that can get reasonable sized loft conversions watertight in just two weeks!


THe other question that hasnt cropped up yet though is what will your home insurance (and mortgage lender) have to say about you DIYing a loft conversion. You my find that they will not cover you and will request someone with an appropriate accreditation or part of a builders scheme is used (ie; FMB or CIOB).

 

[indus]

Just nearly finished mine. Started it in Nov last year and it was a hip roof and built it up to a gable end totaly ripped the roof off and put a new roof on with a full dormer to the rear. Me and my dad and brother did everything exept fit the new stairs. We even lowered all the ceilings on the 1st floor to gain another 9" head room up there. But it was all worth it for 1 big bedroom 1 small bedroom and a bigish bathroom. I just need to fit loads of firedoors to get it all passed by BC.

I have also built a single and double storey extention too and if I had a choice I would pick single storey extention but both are 2 total different jobs.

How much did you spend? Did you do the steel structural work?

What did you find was the hardest part ?

We spent around £15k and yes we did all the steel work. The hardest part was lowering all the ceilings in the 1st floor but thats not something most people would do.

The pics in your album look good, well done.

May I ask, did you pay your father and brother for their help? If you didn't then this additional cost needs to be factored in ie the cost of two (clearly) able helpers.

Thanks

 

[leeco]

It almost feels like a cult that builders are better but the truth is that most builders are not the sharpest minds and simply follow instructions

It is a massive fallacy that just because a builder may not have had a university education that they can't spark together their brain cells.

It's also a fallacy that they simply follow instructions. They follow designs and specifications which are there to explain and detail the level, finish and end product, but then it is down to them to work out how to produce and deliver this. They are also responsible for the site and people management and a good builder will display elements of project management and quantity surveying to name but two additional areas.

I think the reason that many people think builders are simpletons is because anyone can have a crack at it... and if they manage it the once some think they can make money out of doing it on other peoples property too... until they get out of their depth and make a run for it.

Builders get a bad name, and builders are easy to come by, good builders are harder.

I would consider leeco as the exception rather than the rule when it comes to DIYing an extension. And suppose that he and his team have had some experience with joinery or this level of DIY, as well as getting appropriately qualified help for certain areas such as electrical wiring and central heating etc.

Having said that, a cost of approx 15k is not a ground breakingly significant saving over having a builder do the work I imagine that in Yorkshire, for a relatively small addition as in his pictures, you could probably have a builder complete the works for somewhere between 20-22k.... and have the work complete in three or maybe four weeks. Plus have all the work guaranteed. (We saw that leeco has been doing it since Nov 2012, and is yet to clarify if he has factored in their own labour costs - which whilst you may not pay should always be used to calculate build costs)

His extension in London would probably cost more (but then, so would a DIY build because material and delivery costs are higher too). But importantly, I know builders in the London area that can get reasonable sized loft conversions watertight in just two weeks!


THe other question that hasnt cropped up yet though is what will your home insurance (and mortgage lender) have to say about you DIYing a loft conversion. You my find that they will not cover you and will request someone with an appropriate accreditation or part of a builders scheme is used (ie; FMB or CIOB).

My dad and brother are builders by trade and I'm a qualifide sparky and joiner so I wouldn't say it was a DIY job.

 

[indus]

Leeco, did they work for free?

 

[leeco]

Leeco, did they work for free?

Yes but I have helped them out before with stuff.

 

[limerockconstruction]

[The IT bloke thinks builders are a cult, and that we are not the sharpest minds - .

Well some builder built Stonehenge for the Druid Cult

An Aussie builder .....