How many faults?

[rjm2k]

Bathroom installation

Not DIY

RCD(loft) Fed from light circuit (1 or 1.5mm not sure).

I can't remember if before this work there was a loop in/out or if this was the end of the circuit .

Shaver socket fed from RCD, no fused connector for the shaver socket

Digital shower fed via fsu from RCD

3 pole isolator 2 (loft) fed from RCD, currently in off position, nothing is off. Yes the isolator is inoperative and being used only as a junction box. Hopefully nobody working on the extractor assumes the isolator would, you know, isolate.

Extractor fed by isolator 2, but not since it doesn't isolate.

3 pole pull cord isolator in room (we asked the sparky who fitted the old extractor to put one in the room so we could switch off over night, it was previously in series with isolator 1 when isolator 1 actually isolated). Pull cord isolator is fed from isolator 1.

Cable for isolator 2 now comes up from middle of loft floor, trip/snag hazard.



Lights fed from isolator 2 , not isolated by pull isolator 1.

The question marks are where I made assumptions because I couldn't follow the cable

Anything I missed?

Ta

 

[ericmark]

There is no requirement to fit an isolator except for motors over a set size, so there is nothing wrong not using the output from an isolator, I don't know what a digital shower is? In the main showers with an electric supply can just control output or the can also heat the water, the latter needs far more power than you can get from a FCU, the former the motor does not use much power.

There are general regulations which refer to spiting the supply into circuits, and RCD requirements for circuits in a bathroom, but the diagram does not really show much, photos are better, the photo of the cable yes I would have expected it to come through the flooring at the joist, or at least some trunking over it, but I can't think of any regulation it brakes.

There are phrases like "they are adequately robust or have additional mechanical protection appropriate to the assessed conditions of external influence." but hard to see from what you have said where that requirement has not been met.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

There is no requirement to fit an isolator except for motors over a set size,

I'm not aware of any such rule, to necessarily have an isolator close to a motor, even large ones. It was standard practice in my industry, to not fit local isolators, nor in most cases would it have been practical - massive motors, often as not outdoors, but even indoors often damp conditions. The only means of isolation, at the control panel, in the dry, with ability to lock-off.

For the OP... That install reads like a total botched mess, but the way you have rushed writing the description, it is difficult to be precisely critical of the work done. Could you perhaps retype it, with better explanations perhaps? Maybe also add some photos of the work.

Are you saying there is only one RCD, and that RCD is installed in the loft? That the RCD also supplies an electric shower? That the same circuit, without any fuse/MCB also then feeds the bathroom lighting?

 

[rjm2k]

Thanks, it's going to be reworked a little.

The light circuit is fed from an MCB on the non RCD protected side of the main CU.

The main issues are no FCU on the shaver socket (also has a built-in toothbrush charger) to allow for isolation in the event of a fault that trips the RCD or MCB on the main CU and the completely inoperative isolator that looks like it will isolate the extractor but doesn't. The cable route can be adjusted.

 

[EFLImpudence]

The main issues are no FCU on the shaver socket (also has a built-in toothbrush charger) to allow for isolation in the event of a fault that trips the RCD

That is not an issue.

Local isolation is not a requirement for any appliance.

 

[333rocky333]

I'm not aware of any such rule, to necessarily have an isolator close to a motor,

Think Eric may be thinking of reg 552.1.2
Though not to do with isolaters

552.1.2 states:

"Every electric motor having a rating exceeding 0.37kW shall be provided with control equipment incorporating means of protection against overload of the motor. This requirement does not apply to a motor incorporated in an item of current using equipment complying as a whole with an appropriate British or harmonised standard

 

[rjm2k]

That is not an issue.

Local isolation is not a requirement for any appliance.

Ok thanks, there was local isolation but they removed it I believe because the tiler didn't want the work of cutting around it

 

[Murdochcat]

Does the bathroom RCD isolate the lights, fan, shower and shaver point?

Were you given a certificate for this work?

 

[rjm2k]

Does the bathroom RCD isolate the lights, fan, shower and shaver point?

Were you given a certificate for this work?

Yes it does and no not yet (whole job not complete)

 

[Murdochcat]

Yes it does and no not yet (whole job not complete)

Then, on the basis of what you say there is no fault.

What does the spark say?

 

[ericmark]

I'm not aware of any such rule, to necessarily have an isolator close to a motor, even large ones. It was standard practice in my industry, to not fit local isolators, nor in most cases would it have been practical - massive motors, often as not outdoors, but even indoors often damp conditions. The only means of isolation, at the control panel, in the dry, with ability to lock-off.

[quote="BS 7671:2008]552.1.2 Every electric motor having a rating exceeding 0.37 kW shall be provided with control equipment incorporating means of protection against overload of the motor. This requirement does not apply to a motor incorporated in an item of current-using equipment complying as a whole with an appropriate British Standard.[/quote]
I only said that to show there are exceptions to the general rule. Since no rotating machines, in this case no requirement. I have seen where people think there must be an isolator for the cooker, however not seen a gas tap on a cooker for years.

In some cases one has to question as to if the isolator makes it safer or more dangerous, the isolator for mother hob was behind the hob, but the consumer unit was in same room, and low enough for wheel chair access, and right by the exit, so with any event involving the hob, switching off at consumer unit would be a better option.

I would think there are more problems with an electric shower isolator than with the shower, this has also been raised with a solar system isolator, and there have been concerns raised over duplicated isolators. Yet for machinery e-stops often it is required to have at least two sets of contacts open, don't ask for the regs, not worked on that type a machine for a long time. And it was a HSE rule not BS rule so not required in domestic.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I would think there are more problems with an electric shower isolator than with the shower,

I will agree with that, especially the commonly fitted pull cord type, especially if the homeowner insists on switching it every time the shower is used. My shower is fitted with an isolator, but it is more substantial wall mounted switch, and only ever used when working on the shower.

 

[securespark]

Think Eric may be thinking of reg 552.1.2
Though not to do with isolaters

552.1.2 states:

"Every electric motor having a rating exceeding 0.37kW shall be provided with control equipment incorporating means of protection against overload of the motor. This requirement does not apply to a motor incorporated in an item of current using equipment complying as a whole with an appropriate British or harmonised standard

That's the reg I was thinking of, but I haven't seen it since the 15th Edition!