I think I said they are not required or used as the lighting circuit is adequately fused.
RCD req for bathroom lights, fan and shaver?
- Thread starter FrankM45
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I think I said they are not required or used as the lighting circuit is adequately fused.
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Well, I would personally say that that is not a very accurate paraphrase of ...
.... which does, indeed, sound rather like a prohibitive decree!!
Kind Regards, John
Once all the suitcases, book collections, discarded kids toys and Christmas decorations have been conscientiously removed that is!
That's alright, because you've had to move that all already to wire the inevitable spotlights and fan. I'll take that any day over tomorrow's 'loft'. About 1m wide, under the eaves, maybe 1m high. Loaded with rockwool, and under that, ducting for a whole house ventilation system. Have to crawl in forwards, and then reverse out again. Hate those kind of lofts!
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"there are two types of secrets: the kind you want to keep in, and the kind you don't dare to let out"
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I have used RCD/FCU where neither the overload or the earth leakage was required, I simply wanted the no volt drop out so the bench grinder would not auto re-start after a power cut. Using one just for the RCD is also a valid reason, unlike the 13A socket and FCU is hard wired so there is no worry about something else being plugged in.
There are cases where we want a 13A socket on a lighting circuit, be it to take a remote RF dimming unit, power a TV booster, or take a cheap RCD, and although it may seem OK at the time, there is always a danger that some item will be plugged in which could cause an overload and so extinguish all lights so even if it seems to make sense it should really not be done.
This includes the bathroom fan, it's not a light, and if the fan fails it could extinguish the lights, but in the main we consider it to be an acceptable risk.
Although we should protect buried cables, in real terms we don't drill walls while taking a bath, so the risk of a buried cable in a bathroom is no different to any other room in the house. So if not worried about protecting cables then not sure the fan or shaver socket needs RCD protection. The fan needs a tool to access live parts unlike changing a bulb, in fact some lamps need a tool to access the bulb. As to the shaver socket, touching and grounding either of the live outputs will not trip a RCD, a RCD will not work on a IT system.
So with many bathrooms the RCD does mean you can reduce the earth bonding and comply with regulations, but does little to protect from electric shock. And at some point it is likely the consumer unit will be changed so adding a RCD FCU is a temporary measure in most cases. It needs to be mounted outside the bathroom in most cases, and where it can be reset, kids have not changed in years, and today as when I was a kid, the idea of switching off the lights when some one is in the bathroom seems to be considered fun! And with a RCD where you can claim it was not you it must have tripped that's even better.
So not sure on if I would single out a bathroom for RCD protection. I love the RCD but don't think I would single out the bathroom as only room in house with one.
There are cases where we want a 13A socket on a lighting circuit, be it to take a remote RF dimming unit, power a TV booster, or take a cheap RCD, and although it may seem OK at the time, there is always a danger that some item will be plugged in which could cause an overload and so extinguish all lights so even if it seems to make sense it should really not be done.
This includes the bathroom fan, it's not a light, and if the fan fails it could extinguish the lights, but in the main we consider it to be an acceptable risk.
Although we should protect buried cables, in real terms we don't drill walls while taking a bath, so the risk of a buried cable in a bathroom is no different to any other room in the house. So if not worried about protecting cables then not sure the fan or shaver socket needs RCD protection. The fan needs a tool to access live parts unlike changing a bulb, in fact some lamps need a tool to access the bulb. As to the shaver socket, touching and grounding either of the live outputs will not trip a RCD, a RCD will not work on a IT system.
So with many bathrooms the RCD does mean you can reduce the earth bonding and comply with regulations, but does little to protect from electric shock. And at some point it is likely the consumer unit will be changed so adding a RCD FCU is a temporary measure in most cases. It needs to be mounted outside the bathroom in most cases, and where it can be reset, kids have not changed in years, and today as when I was a kid, the idea of switching off the lights when some one is in the bathroom seems to be considered fun! And with a RCD where you can claim it was not you it must have tripped that's even better.
So not sure on if I would single out a bathroom for RCD protection. I love the RCD but don't think I would single out the bathroom as only room in house with one.
I agree with your thinking/reasoning.
However, if you want to remain reg-compliant (no matter how rational more irrational you regard the regs), the fact is that the regs do 'single out' just the bathroom. It is the only room in a house for which there is a blanket requirement that all circuits 'supplying it' must be RCD-protected. So, if you are adding anything new (or, I would say, making 'material changes' to circuits already there), then reg-compliance would call for RCD protection.
Kind Regards, John
Indeed, BS7671:2008 have singled out the bathroom as an area that requires RCD, when alterations are being made.
Like it or not.
With regards to mischievous children, I always fit the RCD/FCU in place where I would not expect the normal sized child to reach.
And I always fit an iso for the fan, so if it was faulty or required maintenance, it would not prevent the lights from being operational, is that not normally done by the non-DIY brigade?
Like it or not.
With regards to mischievous children, I always fit the RCD/FCU in place where I would not expect the normal sized child to reach.
And I always fit an iso for the fan, so if it was faulty or required maintenance, it would not prevent the lights from being operational, is that not normally done by the non-DIY brigade?
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It's often given as a reason for the isolator but, surely, it must be one of those myths that no one knows who started.
It's hardly the end of the world if the lights are out given where else we have to crawl and do the work.
Quite so. Furthermore, many bathrooms have plenty of natural light during the daytime and, in any event, if one wanted to work on the lights, one has no choice but to have the lights disabled!
The one part of what PBoD said (which doesn't usually get said) which makes a little more sense is that enables the lights to continue working if the fan becomes faulty - which could entail a period of days before the fan was attended to.
Kind Regards, John
That's a far more valid reason - so the lights on to work on the fan is irrelevant.
Indeed - my very point.
However, strangely, the 'reason' nearly always given is the one (IMO far less 'valid', and largely based on 'myth') relating to working on the fan. As we're agreed, PBoD has mentioned a more valid reason, but I don't recall anyone having previously cited that!
Kind Regards, John
Perhaps something not carved in stone, but some myths do evolve in to a logical/sensible method of achievement.
And I am sure that many MIs in the past, present and yet to come, detail this.
Not that we now have follow the MIs.
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