How To Control Storage Heaters Without A Radio Teleswitch?

[Deleted member 54734]

However, the E10 tariffs require a single meter & thus single output.

Where is everyone getting this idea that an E10 setup is single rate or am I just getting confused??????

Economy 10 (E10) AFAIK or until somebody tells me to fit it differently (which I can't see how) is a 2RATE tariff.

The most popular E10 setup in my area is a TELEMETER (a meter with timer built in) programmed to E10's times.

A telemeter has your normal 4 ports plus 1 extra for the off peak load.

This extra port only becomes live at the set times.

The other E10 setup we fit is a 2RATE meter with a mechanical 6 arm timeclock which we set to switch at the right times.

Both setup's in this area at least will be fitted with a 3pole isolator (if there is not one on site) so with the help of a Henley for the neutral, the electrician can install the off peak CU without cutting seals.

It seems to me that you fella's are spending you hard earned cash on something that will be supplied with your E10 install?

 

[Steve]

surely you dont need to take a supply right back to the mains.

Given that you only have one supply available, use a timeswitch + contactor for one feed and put the other feed into the permenant live side. The boiler cannot use more than 9.5kw at any one time, so the whole lot can go on a 45A MCB together.

Oops i didnt realise there was 2 pages. Disregard my post if what Roo said applies to you.

 

[samtheman1k]

surely you dont need to take a supply right back to the mains.

Given that you only have one supply available, use a timeswitch + contactor for one feed and put the other feed into the permenant live side. The boiler cannot use more than 9.5kw at any one time, so the whole lot can go on a 45A MCB together.

Oops i didnt realise there was 2 pages. Disregard my post if what Roo said applies to you.

Yes, that is effectively what I wish to do. When I say take it back to the mains, I mean bring it back to the main RCD that is connected to the mains. I guess the other way of doing it is to connect both inputs to the relevant outputs from the contactor, which is a bit less wiring I guess!

 

[samtheman1k]

Where is everyone getting this idea that an E10 setup is single rate or am I just getting confused??????

My understanding from talking to Southern Electric is that you have a single box with two electricity readings on it, an on peak and off peak. The box only has one output which supplies the entire house. Thus when the timer switches to the off peak rate, the entire supply & thus house is supplied at the off peak rate and similarly for on peak. This is in contrast to our current E7 system where only the storage heaters are connected to an off peak meter.

Though maybe I'm mistaken!

 

[Deleted member 54734]

I think southern are confusing you.

Yes you may have 1 box (or meter as sometimes known ) installed.

If 1 box is installed this will be a TELEMETER (see above).

Your E7 setup should also give your whole house cheap electric at the specified time otherwise it isn't E7 it's another tariff.

Maybe your second box in your present setup could be a timeclock?

 

[samtheman1k]

Maybe your second box in your present setup could be a timeclock?

Nope, cos I have a 3rd box which is clearly the timeclock. lol

The storage heaters are connected to a fuse box which in turn is connected to the offpeak meter. The rest of the house is connected to the onpeak/always on/continuous meter via a seperate fuse box (no MCBs as system is fairly old). During the offpeak periods, the off peak meter is off (obviously) and you cannot use the storage heaters at all (not even for a top up at on peak rates). It is quite an old system, but is definitely E7 at the moment. I think new installs are done with a single meter (but two rates), rather than the two seperate meters I currently have.

From your explanation below, only items connected to the offpeak port would be charged at the off peak rate, thus meaning that items such as washing machines would still be using the onpeak/continuous rate? Or have I miss interpreted what you have written? I don't see how the whole house can be using the off peak rate (which is what it definitely says in Southern's leafet) if you have two seperate outputs from the meter?

 

[Deleted member 54734]

All the house, storage heaters, TV, washing machine etc etc will be on cheap rate at the relevant times with E10.

Equipment (storage heaters etc) connected to the 5th port will ONLY come on during the off peak period.

But all electric used will be cheaper at off peak times!

This should also be the case with E7.

There are tariffs that use 2 single rate meters that have the same times as E7 but are not E7 as they do not include the 24hr circuits in the off peak reading.

You will get one meter charged slightly higher than normal and one meter charged slightly less than standard rate.

In my area the only tariffs I can think of that this type of setup applies too are what was called off peak A,B,C AND D.

These are my old DNO tariffs that when the metering companys were split where no longer made available to customers, but if the customer already had the tariff it could not be removed unless the customer requested it.

The office got confused and called them all E7.

Hope I've been of some help!

P.s as stated at the start of this post E10 doesn't support storage heaters.

 

[dfh101]

Had the contactor and time switch fitted a few weeks ago, storage heaters are much better and are lasting in the evening now with a split charge, 2 hours morning 5.20am - 7.20am and 2 hours in the afternoon 1.50pm - 3.50pm.

If required they can be boosted during the last cheap period of the day between 8.21pm and 12.21am as well, allthough the fire in the lounge and the panel heaters in the bedrooms would be better during this period.

The only strange thing is the meter switches onto and off the lower rate 9 minutes before it should during all periods, ie : should be on at 4.30 to 7.30 but comes on at 4.21 and goes off at 7.21.

Overall, very happy with economy 10 and storage heaters.


DFH101

 

[Deleted member 54734]

The only strange thing is the meter switches onto and off the lower rate 9 minutes before it should during all periods, ie : should be on at 4.30 to 7.30 but comes on at 4.21 and goes off at 7.21.

DFH101

If it's a mechanical time clock we can never set them exactly as our eye's are just not that good which is one reason suppliers usually say give or take an hour with the times.

With it now getting cold I've been getting a lot of 2 rate tariff jobs lately.

The other day I had a job that reminded me of this post.
Job was to install E10 and as the customer had storage heaters I had to ring the boss, who then rung his boss.
Boss said I could install the E10 but I had to leave the off peak circuit disconnected as " E10 hasn't been approved to work with storage heaters" he also said he'd no idea why it hadn't been approved but it just hadn't.

Glad to see your happy and everything is working as it should, but be cautious as one day they may clock on you have the storage heaters with E10.
I don't know if they can do anything now it's fitted, but...

 

[dfh101]

The meter is a horstman radio telemeter series k so should be switched by signal, At the weekend it also seems to give me an extra half an hour in the evening off peak by starting early.

Regarding the meter install, there was no live feed given to the storage heater side of the mcb which i did not realise at the time, The last block of the dno equipment had only 1 cable into it but 2 cables out at the bottom, 1 to supply the domestic board and the direct heating side of the board and 1 to supply the storage heater board.

When the contactor was fitted my sparky connected the storage heater side by using one of the spare connectors on the henley block that fed the working mcb's.


DFH101

 

[Deleted member 54734]

With you having a teleswitch your right you should near enough be able to set your watch by it.

Are you rural? Could it be the teleswitch is having problems picking up the signal?

Am I right in thinking the DNO didn't connect anything to the 5th port on the teleswitch and connected you storage heaters to the 24hr via a henley?

Sounds like what I was told on the phone the other week, "Not allowed to connect storage heaters to the off peak port of the teleswitch but the customer can get a spark in to fit their own time clock and take a feed for that from the 24hr".

Seems stupid to me when all is needed is the 5th port.

When you say contactor do you mean time clock?

If the storage heaters are not switched by the meter (which it sounds like unless i've read it wrong) then the clock that switch's them may be a few minutes out.

 

[R_A_Z]

Hi,
When browsing on the net I came a cross this forum which I find a bit radio rental. I work with Scottish & Southern Energy and I work with a lot of E10's in the Central Belt Area and I know the game inside.

Unfortunatly very few people know what to do with an E10 in SSE. If you came across me you wouldnt of got an E10 for storage heaters and if you where coming over to SSE for an E10 for an instantaneuos system like an electrical wet water system I would have had you registered in five days time and your meter fitted within two weeks. (Saving all the hassle of getting SPOW to remove your meter and update MPAS etc because I would have done all the particulars for you).

I dont know why you have came to Hydro for E10 as SPOW have 12,16 & 20 off peak Tariffs which is more sutable to your system and would work out more economical for you.

By the sounds of things you would have been previously on Comfortplus Whitemeter or control which gives you up to 14hr of off peak electricity depending on the weather (working on the weather call system) and everything that uses a heating element runs on the off peak.

From what I have read on this forum I dont know where you are at the moment but my suggestion is that you would probably be better on with SPOW on an internet tariff or a capped price contract on for example there off peak D Tariff which will give you 16 off peak Monday to Friday and 24hrs Sat and Sunday and the unit prices are including VAT with the capped prices are standing charge 16.68p, dy rate 9.372p & off peak rate 4.605p. The times are 1830-0530, 0830-1330

When you compare them to Hydro E10 and SPOWs off peak D you will be spids in with SPOW and you get more storage time for your raditors.

I hope this is of help but I coulnt not comment on this when I seen it, if I can be of any help give us a shout.

 

[Deleted member 54734]

Didn't know off peak D was still available?

 

[R_A_Z]

Didn't know off peak D was still available?

Yes, there would be no hassle for me to book the job to get this done if SSE could support it.

 

[steco]

Hi,
When browsing on the net I came a cross this forum which I find a bit radio rental. I work with Scottish & Southern Energy and I work with a lot of E10's in the Central Belt Area and I know the game inside.

Unfortunatly very few people know what to do with an E10 in SSE. If you came across me you wouldnt of got an E10 for storage heaters and if you where coming over to SSE for an E10 for an instantaneuos system like an electrical wet water system I would have had you registered in five days time and your meter fitted within two weeks. (Saving all the hassle of getting SPOW to remove your meter and update MPAS etc because I would have done all the particulars for you).

I dont know why you have came to Hydro for E10 as SPOW have 12,16 & 20 off peak Tariffs which is more sutable to your system and would work out more economical for you.

By the sounds of things you would have been previously on Comfortplus Whitemeter or control which gives you up to 14hr of off peak electricity depending on the weather (working on the weather call system) and everything that uses a heating element runs on the off peak.

From what I have read on this forum I dont know where you are at the moment but my suggestion is that you would probably be better on with SPOW on an internet tariff or a capped price contract on for example there off peak D Tariff which will give you 16 off peak Monday to Friday and 24hrs Sat and Sunday and the unit prices are including VAT with the capped prices are standing charge 16.68p, dy rate 9.372p & off peak rate 4.605p. The times are 1830-0530, 0830-1330

When you compare them to Hydro E10 and SPOWs off peak D you will be spids in with SPOW and you get more storage time for your raditors.

I hope this is of help but I coulnt not comment on this when I seen it, if I can be of any help give us a shout.

RAZ - I have night storage heaters and am just changing to Southern Electric E10.
Price = 18.14p daily. 10.81p/kWh high and 4.935p low rate.
Times are 00 to 0530, 1300 - 1600 and 2000 to 2200. (yorkshire elec)
Do you think I can get a better deal with SPOW (whoever they are?) ..thanks for your help.