How to get good finish on Dulux Satinwood?

[joe-90]

I do it that way but it isn't as easy as oil based. Probably better to stick to a brush.

 

[opps]

I have used Dulux Satinwood white 'wash brushes with white spirit' version on the whole house woodwork and loved it until the new regulations for reduced solvents seemed to ruin paints of all types.
I feel the water based satinwood is a cold translucent white, difficult to get good finish with brush or roller and is very difficult to sand down years later, an odd acrylic type surface! So I have steered clear of that.

So I have the solvent based one but struggle to get a good finish with foam rollers like I used to do. These low solvent ones are very different and don't form a level surface the way the old ones did, very unforgiving. They are also very slow drying! The undercoat some years back when these new low-solvent ones first came in took nearly a week to go hard, tacky to the touch for many days.

How do I get the very best finish using the solvent based satinwood? I have tried pain pads, mini foam and fleece rollers. But often I get a stippled look finish that doesn't level out with drying. Never had this problem with the old (higher solvent) version.

Any tips please? Can it be slightly thinned??

Many thanks

Easy answer.

Not cheap though. Buy some Owatrol oil, also add a tiny bit of white spirit and if you want to speed up the curing time, add some terebene.

Terebene http://www.agwoodcare.co.uk/Item/rustins_paint_dryers

Owatrol https://www.promain.co.uk/product/owatrol-oil-for-rusted-surfaces-id3314

The Owatrol helps maintain a wet edge and improves flow/flattening. Crucial when painting on both hot and cold days

White spirit helps thin the paint, but too much thinning requires more coats

Terebene ensures that the paint will actually be dry the next day (or touch dry much earlier).

That said, Dulux trade oil based eggshell is far more forgiving (slightly lower sheen), less likely to show brush marks (tram lines).

 

[opps]

Thanks. Sikkens is definitely not cheap but that is secondary to it being the right product. It sounds like for a water based paint (and they will definitely stay white) it is still good to work with and produces a good finish.
Products like Dulux Diamond have been recommended by some but then others give poor ratings for application and finish. My previous and only experience with water based white satinwood was 15 years ago with a Dulux, it was quite translucent and didn't block out what was under it. Hopefully the Sikkens is much better.

If it was any other colour then the low solvent satinwood wouldn't be an issue but with white it seems a big problem - for all brands, reports of yellowing within months are quite discouraging. So it looks like water based from here on for white.
Q - Do I apply the Sikkens water based in the same was - roller then brush out with a synthetic brush?

Thanks again.

For waterbased paints use Flowtrol or XIM Bonder (the waterbased counterpart to Owatrol, it is propylene glycol based).

For the record I have never succeeded in producing the same level of finish with a waterbased finish. I wish I could but I cant.

 

[joe-90]

If those products were needed they would be added at manufacture.

 

[blightymam]

Top tips opps, I shall make a note of that, cheers!

 

[SproutsDad]

Opps, thanks.
I appreciate your feedback, but it all sounds like being an industrial chemist! Flowtrol, XIM Bonder, Owatrol, white spirit - so many ingredients! And what quantities are these sold in, and from where, and how much to use of each and when etc..........!
I just want to paint the house woodwork white similar to satinwood - not high gloss - I am quite fussy with detail so don't want it to go on like tar and equally go yellow after 6 months. I take a great pride in my work and am fussy with the preparation so don't want it wasted on a poor topcoat.

4-5 years ago I wouldn't have been asking for advice because the paints then both stayed white longer and were easier to apply for a quality finish. But that all seems to have changed with the 2010(?) or thereabouts change in the allowed solvent content or whatever it was that changed the world for a painter/decorator! Since then the paint also seemed to take forever to actually dry and harden.

For any other colour apart from white we probably wouldn't be conversing. But from what I have learned so far I am now leaning heavily towards a good quality water based white. All that effort with oil/solvent based paint to then have it go yellow within a year, I think not.

If Sikkens is reckoned to be among the best then I will perhaps buy 1 litre of the Sikkens Satura and experiment a little before ordering a tanker load of the wrong paint. Last time I purchased 7.5 litres of Dulux Satinwood that I now don't want to use because the results are so disappointing.

I hear what Joe-90 says and would query why all the additives mentioned are not added by the manufacturers to improve the paint? They have taken a lot of stick for the problems which people have complained heavily about, so I would have thought they would welcome any way to make the paints more customer friendly.

Thanks again for your response.

 

[joe-90]

I don't know what Opps is going on about. He's normally a big fan of Sikkens Satura. (pale lilac tin).

 

[dcdec]

The sikkens BL satura (water based or to be correct alkyd hybrid) is as good a finish as oil based but may require an extra coat. I've used tons of it and never been disappointed with it. The dulux quick drying undercoat is very good as well and the gloss is the best i've used. Oil based is deader than disco, its slow drying and stinks and an awkward clean up. Like it or not people must start thinking about using non oil based products as they are on their way out.

 

[SproutsDad]

Thanks dcdec.
It may sound simple, but I just want a white paint that stays white and doesn't give me lots of agro putting it on.

There may be die-hards who love oil/solvent based paints and not the 'new fangled' water based ones, but for most people it isn't a science or an anorak subject, but just how to get the best paint for the job in hand. And until some few years ago and the EU directive to reduce VOC emissions, that paint would in most cases have been oil based. Good finish, drying time, ease of application and colour retention were all very favourable.
But then that all changed and suddenly the paint took forever to dry, it turned yellow in months and was not the easiest to apply. I recall with horror the time I did the whole staircase with Dulux undercoat that took a week to dry - had I forgotten to stir it? No, it was this new breed of cleaner less-solvent paints!
But there were also very negative aspects to the older solvent paints. I nearly passed out once in a poorly vented room high up on a step ladder breathing in the fumes at ceiling level! I'd rather put up with a slightly poorer finish.

So I am not at all fussed whether it is oil or water based - this isn't lager vs. real ale - but if as I pick up here, the tide is turning and Sikkens Satura (purple tin) in particular is a really good white paint that stays white, then that's the one for me.

Q? >> Which Undercoat - what should I use, is there a special or normal undercoat that will work with Sikkens?
Or do I continue with a normal Dulux (oil) undercoat and add some of this Terebene (Rustins Paint Dryer - £5 for 250ml) to speed up drying?

Thanks to all

 

[dcdec]

You have to be careful with terribine dryers, you only need a few drops, over do it and your paint will go brittle. Everything you are looking for points to the sikkens BL satura or even the dulux quick drying satin. Satin is self undercoating.

 

[SproutsDad]

Thanks. I am sold on the water based white satin, Sikkens probably.

Over the years with oil based satinwood I had become a convert to small foam or mohair gloss rollers. Reading here though it seems the advice is more towards using a brush, synthetic, not a roller, for water based satinwood. Can you please clarify what is the best method for the best possible finish?

I don't like to see brush strokes, that's why I have used rollers on oil based, but maybe water based is quicker drying and needs a different approach? Your advice is much appreciated. Thanks.

 

[SproutsDad]

Your advice please ref the above ?!
>> Water based satinwood white Sikkens - do I use Brush or roller for best finish?
What gives the best finish on woodwork, doors etc? :-
> Brush (synthetic?) ?
or
> Roller - foam or mohair?

I don't like to see brush strokes, that's why I have used rollers on oil based,
> Q but maybe water based is quicker drying and needs a different approach??
>> Your advice is much appreciated.
Thanks.

 

[joe-90]

With Sikkens it's all about speed. Brush it on with a good synthetic brush (they are nearly all good these days), then walk away. Come back ten minutes later as it runs really late.

 

[SproutsDad]

I will need to do a trial run on something to get the feel for Sikkens and water based generally.

Q >> Joe, sounds like you favour brush vs. roller?
Q >> Do I have to accept a slightly more uneven surface with some brush lines using water based?
I have been used to a spray-like finish with old oil based (not the new stuff)