how to prepare 2 level surface for tiling, help please

[Richard C]

It will say be branded as Mapei not BNQ, but “Builfix” will be in the small print; I was more interested in the "type" of adhesive they have sold you.

Score throroughly all over the paint with a triangular shave hook, criss-cross pattern around 15mm apart & acrylic prime. For uneven walls, use a solid thick bed trowel - 20mm round notches, 10mm deep, at 28mm centres.

 

[happyhero]

Two things that I have come up against and thought it best to ask, firstly when the double glazing was fitted in the past they fixed trim in the window reveals onto the tiles so that removing these tiles means removing the trim as well, no problem you would think but I used some silicon dissolver over 24 hours and some of the stuff wont come off, in fact a line of it all round the window.

It seems that they used silicon which has come off fine but also they must have used some sort of adhesive where the trim touches the window frame as this is not effected by the silicon remover and even with real elbow grease and a good scraper it is hard to remove, in fact I am at the limit where I will start to damage the frame if I go any harder at it, any ideas on how to remove this as some will show even allowing for the new tiles, adhesive and a bit of new silicon?

The other thing is they have selected a mosaic tile to go round sort of at dado height all round, it was the the suggested one in the shop to go with these tiles. It is about 40/50mm wide and about 200mm long on a mesh, do I need to know anything about this ie any tips or just tile it in as if it were another piece of the big tiles?

It is going all the way round the room into the window reveals.

 

[Richard C]

The stuck on plastic trim trick is typical of cheap “bodge it” window installers who don’t allow for proper internal plaster repairs in their quote & then don’t bother to explain the options. Usually it's just silicone but the other dtuff could be anything really caulk, grab adhesive, no way of knowing but a sharp square edge scraper & lots of patience may eventually pay off. If not & any damage is noticeable, all you can do is stick a piece of plastic quadrant trim over it after tiling to hide the marks.

Just treat the mosaic as the other tiles but you'll need to use a lot more spacers to support it & you might also need to pack out if the tile strip is a different thickness. Use a flat piece of wood to press the tiles in the adhesive (but not too hard) & keep it all flat. Leave the mosaic strip to set before continuing to tile above or the weight of the tiles on the strip can move/distort it.

 

[happyhero]

Hi Richard

Asked in Tile Giant for this trowel and they only had square ones but they seemed pretty certain it was much too big.

For uneven walls, use a solid thick bed trowel - 20mm round notches, 10mm deep, at 28mm centres.

so I went to Topps Tiles as they were nearby and they had all sorts but agin did not have the one you suggest, but they also thought it was far too big.

both places suggested a square 6mm after I explained that I had a flat render/cement based surface, i was trying to get them to suggest bigger by saying the surface was a little rough which render would be so that they would suggest the one you said but they seemed sure it should be only 6mm.

So few question if thats ok.

What do you think about this?

Also what happens if you do put on thicker adhesive than you need, is it ok and just wastes some or is there a reason not to?

Whats the difference between the shapes, ie what difference will it make using square or round trowels, just interested?

Checked the adhesive for what you said, and it looks ok to me but he was selling me the rapid one which he said goes off in 30 minutes and I thought that was too quick for me so changed it for the one that takes hours to go off. I thought that would be sensible for me as I could never tile as quickly as a professional.

 

[Richard C]

Asked in Tile Giant for this trowel and they only had square ones

What size? So are you saying your tile shop only had one type & size of trowel!

but they seemed pretty certain it was much too big.

Much too big for what? Did you explain you have large format tiles on an uneven wall which needs a powder addy!

so I went to Topps Tiles as they were nearby and they had all sorts but agin did not have the one you suggest, but they also thought it was far too big.

Ahh Topps my favorite ; again far too big for what? It’s well known that, apart from B&Q, their counter staff are among the best experts in the tiling trade.

both places suggested a square 6mm after I explained that I had a flat render/cement based surface, i was trying to get them to suggest bigger by saying the surface was a little rough which render would be so that they would suggest the one you said but they seemed sure it should be only 6mm.

A 6mm square notch @ 25mm pitch will give adequate bonding in a dry area on a perfectly flat tile base. In a wet area you need something a bit larger, 10mm wide x 6mm notch @ 12mm to give the required adhesive coverage. Again, you have large format tiles (which need a powder addy) on an uneven wall & in a wet area!

Also what happens if you do put on thicker adhesive than you need?

You will waste it; but local circumstances may make it prudent! Powder addy will stand much thicker applications than tub mix which is a big benefit on uneven wall surfaces. The amount of addy you use is directly related to (or should be) the size of the trowel you use which is dependant on the requirements & local conditions.

Whats the difference between the shapes, ie what difference will it make using square or round trowels, just interested?

The coverage of the adhesive under the tile. I only ever use a round notch in wet areas; square notch will not give the necessary 95-100% adhesive coverage which is necessary in wet areas.

Checked the adhesive for what you said, and it looks ok to me but he was selling me the rapid one which he said goes off in 30 minutes and I thought that was too quick for me so changed it for the one that takes hours to go off. I thought that would be sensible for me as I could never tile as quickly as a professional.

But which one? If it’s the wrong type of adhesive or sets too slowly, large/heavy format will slide around all over the place on the wall & the adhesive will take an age to go off before you can grout. Your choice but using Rapidset, or SPF if you feel you need longer, won’t make any difference as long as you only mix up enough to last you the pot life. A 6mm x 6mm notch trowel on that size tile using powder addy on an uneven wall is too small won't give sufficient tile adhesion for a wet area.

I have done my best to give advice, admittedly on the safe side, for your (unseen) conditions but if you wish to take the advice of a tile outlet salesman then that’s fine; good luck

 

[happyhero]

Asked in Tile Giant for this trowel and they only had square ones

What size? So are you saying your tile shop only had one type & size of trowel!

no they had different size square ones but not one single round one, which I thought was odd, they were all on the wall to look at.

but they seemed pretty certain it was much too big.

Much too big for what? Did you explain you have large format tiles on an uneven wall which needs a powder addy!

Yes I did explain to them, but then they are sales staff not tilers so I just use their input to help me make my own decisions. Obviously you hope they know a bit as they supply the stuff to professionals all the time but at the same time I would not take their input as gospel.

so I went to Topps Tiles as they were nearby and they had all sorts but agin did not have the one you suggest, but they also thought it was far too big.

Ahh Topps my favorite ; again far too big for what? It’s well known that, apart from B&Q, their counter staff are among the best experts in the tiling trade.

As above I suppose, although they do seem a bit better than Tile Giant.

both places suggested a square 6mm after I explained that I had a flat render/cement based surface, i was trying to get them to suggest bigger by saying the surface was a little rough which render would be so that they would suggest the one you said but they seemed sure it should be only 6mm.

A 6mm square notch @ 25mm pitch will give adequate bonding in a dry area on a perfectly flat tile base. In a wet area you need something a bit larger, 10mm wide x 6mm notch @ 12mm to give the required adhesive coverage. Again, you have large format tiles (which need a powder addy) on an uneven wall & in a wet area!

Also what happens if you do put on thicker adhesive than you need?

You will waste it; but local circumstances may make it prudent! Powder addy will stand much thicker applications than tub mix which is a big benefit on uneven wall surfaces. The amount of addy you use is directly related to (or should be) the size of the trowel you use which is dependant on the requirements & local conditions.

Whats the difference between the shapes, ie what difference will it make using square or round trowels, just interested?

The coverage of the adhesive under the tile. I only ever use a round notch in wet areas; square notch will not give the necessary 95-100% adhesive coverage which is necessary in wet areas.

Checked the adhesive for what you said, and it looks ok to me but he was selling me the rapid one which he said goes off in 30 minutes and I thought that was too quick for me so changed it for the one that takes hours to go off. I thought that would be sensible for me as I could never tile as quickly as a professional.

But which one? If it’s the wrong type of adhesive or sets too slowly, large/heavy format will slide around all over the place on the wall & the adhesive will tale an age to go off before you can grout. Your choice but using Rapidset, or SPF if you feel you need longer, won’t make any difference as long as you only mix up enough to last you the pot life. A 6mm x 6mm x 6mm notch trowel on that size tile using powder addy on an uneven wall is too small won't give sufficient tile adhesion for a wet area.

I will re-look at this when I go back again next week.

I have done my best to give advice, admittedly on the safe side, for your (unseen) conditions but if you wish to take the advice of a tile outlet salesman then that’s fine; good luck

Hey Richard you are always the man for this, its just I am interested and like to learn as I go rather than just do it parrot fashion, so if someone says different to you, I am interested in what you think about what they said. In any case I have always been one to keep asking questions from different people and get conflicting answers, but that helps me come to a decision that I feel confident with in the end and I am going with you all the way here as your input has been great, and thanks again for all the help. Now its just a case of hunting one of those trowels down, with the 2 tile places already out of the way, I'll google it.

Sorry how my reply looks, I am not quite as good as you at doing the quoting bit yet.

 

[happyhero]

Hi don’t ask me if I have tiled yet because I haven’t although I am ready to start now but I am not there every day and my mother-in-law was not well a few times so it did not suit, she is over 80, so sometimes have to wait for my moment to get in and work for her.
I am looking at the tray she bought from B&Q (hope that does not make you go “oh no”). It is a quadrant 1200 x 800 resin composite and quite slim line. I don’t think she will go to the cost of tiling the floor, I suspect some sought of lino product or stick down tile. The bathroom is suspended floor and she likes the slim line tray.
How should I fit this tray, i.e. hoping to keep it slim line
1. Are the floorboards a possibility for mounting the tray on to?
2. Should I put anything on the floorboards like ply, if so what thickness?
3. If I have to use ply, would it be a possibility to remove the floorboards in the shape of the tray and insert a piece of ply instead, i.e. maintaining the slim line look?
4. Would the Bal Rapidset I bought be any good for sticking it to the floor/ply?
5. If not what should I use to stick it down correctly?
6. Do I need to prime/coat the surface/floorboards/ply with anything?

I know I am off subject slightly but I thought as it is the same project and some sort of adhesive would be used it would be ok to ask here, hope that is ok.

 

[Richard C]

The bathroom is suspended floor and she likes the slim line tray. How should I fit this tray, i.e. hoping to keep it slim line

How you fit the tray very much depends on the joist layout & weather or not you can get access to the fit & maintain the trap & install the pipe run; do not start notching or cutting large holes in the joists.

1. Are the floorboards a possibility for mounting the tray on to?

Not ideal but as long as they are flat & well fixed down it shouldn’t be a problem but it also depends on the type of tray. Stone resin trays are usually laid on a bed of weak mix mortar to give support across the entire base, an insufficiently supported stone resin tray is likely to crack; acrylic/GRP trays can be bedded on silicone. A tiled floor will need a different approach.

2. Should I put anything on the floorboards like ply, if so what thickness?

As above.

2. If I have to use ply, would it be a possibility to remove the floorboards in the shape of the tray and insert a piece of ply instead, i.e. maintaining the slim line look?

You could do it that way.

4. Would the Bal Rapidset I bought be any good for sticking it to the floor/ply?

If you use Rapidset to stick the tray down, it’s unlikely you will ever get it up in one piece again.

5. If not what should I use to stick it down correctly?

See above

6. Do I need to prime/coat the surface/floorboards/ply with anything?

No just remove any dust/dirt. Do no use PVA.

 

[happyhero]

Hi Richard, after a delay I am now tiling finally but I need your advice, hopefully you see this quite quickly.

Its the tile trim round the window, I have looked at many videos online to try and confirm the correct method, they all say it is very simple but all they have done is put doubts in my head as they are contradicting each other. They talk of leaving a 2mm gap on some to allow for the grout to get in but is the trim not designed so that you push the cut edge into it to cover it, and the good edges butt up?

I thought the cut edges are going to be on the wall rather than in the reveal. In the reveal I can have a good edge against the trim and a cut edge against the window which will be siliconed. On the wall I will end up with a cut edge meeting the window edges.

Do you not just butt the good edge in the reveal up against the trim and tile with cut edge into the trim, leaving the tail of the trim (the bit with the holes in it) captive under the wall tiles, ie stick it on the wall rather than onto the reveal?

Surely if I reverse this method you will end up with cut edges just butting up against the trim and on show thus wasting the trims ability to cover cut edges which will not look as good as the factory made edges?

Hope I am making sense, help please on this supposedly simple task.

Appreciate any advice from anybody that can help, if Richard does not get to see this.