How to replace internal stopcock with no external stopcock to isolate it

[James1979]

My internal stopcock has recently started leaking a bit. I know the usual way to replace it would be to isolate the external stopcock and then replace but the house doesn't have an external stopcock (the water supplier thinks it either never had one or has been tarmacked over!)

A second option would be to freeze the rising main just below the stopcock but as you can see from the photo below, the mains disappears straight into the wall with no space to freeze it. I also don't know the path of the mains from the road to the entry point (it's about 25 metres between the road and house)

I was thinking the only other option is to change it 'live' and use a speedfit stopcock so it only takes seconds to fit - but I don't even know if the pressure would be too great to be able to push this on.

Any other suggestions would be great as I'm a bit stuck.

Thanks.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Speedfit is not an option, you would need to cut the pipe with a cutter to ensure clean ends, you wont get one around that, it's too close to the wall. Hacksaw will leave a burred end, which will likely damage the O ring in a push fit joint, I wouldn't even attempt it. May be possible to swap the innards over, looks a reasonably new style of stopcock, but be prepared to get very wet if you try it.

Personally I'd be going back to the Water Co and telling them you have no way of shutting off your supply. They are usually quite good in that situation and will fit an external stop tap. Should that pipe start leaking where it goes through the wall, you need some method of shutting the supply off before that stopcock.

 

[James1979]

Thanks for the reply. It's actually leaking from the joints onto the pipe so swapping innards wouldn't solve it (you can just see the water beading from the top one on the photo). I thought I could just try nipping up the compression fittings and see if that stops it but I'm a bit worried that may make it even worse?

 

[Deleted member 267285]

Just go easy with it and use a spanner/grips/wrench to steady the bottom nut or valve body.

 

[terryplumb]

The joint at the top can easily be remade ,if the stopcock does actually fully close and shut off the water flow. The lower joint looks dry.
What is the other side of the wall ,is the pipe visible there ?

 

[James1979]

Thanks for the replies - you're right, it is just the top joint and the stopcock does shut off the water so that one's fixable with a new washer etc. The bigger drip seems to be coming from the bottom of the part where the tap joins the body (tried to show it on photo below) and not sure what to do with that bit.

The other side of the wall is a dining room and there's no pipe there. The house has been added to over years (not by us) and I'm not sure where the pipe goes after entering the wall.

 

[terryplumb]

Are you sure it's not just water collecting at that point ,and forming a drip after running down from the joint above, that you know us leaking ? A bit unusual for two leaks in the positions you indicate to form at the same time .

 

[James1979]

I have builders in for first day today demolishing some walls and I think they have banged the stopcock and unsettled it which has caused the leak. I’m pretty sure it’s a separate one cos the drip appears underneath before the one on top. Maybe I’ll just try gently nipping the top and the tap assembly to see if that does the trick.

 

[terryplumb]

The "T" shaped handles shaft goes thru a smaller nut ( gland nut) . Is there water escaping there and dripping down ?
Have builders been turning the stopcock off / on ? That can cause the gland to leak.

 

[James1979]

I don’t think they’ve turned it on or off but if they have it shouldn’t have cause leak cos I used it a couple of weeks ago and it was fine. I think it’s been knocked but not sure. I’ve taken better photos to show exactly where drips are forming...

 

[terryplumb]

If your certain the joint at the tap body is leaking ,you could try to tighten it up ,but water supply would have to be off to do any repair there.

 

[gasbanni]

Insist your water supplier come back and find your external stop tap.

Don't let them fob you off they have a duty to find it and they normally can !!!!! Even if it takes them ages .........suppose the pipe splits beneath your stop tap.......
Can you imagine the senario? Get the plonkers back !!!!!!!!! They've never failed me in having to find it even if it's being tarmaced over !

 

[RayCaister]

Ask the Water Co to install a meter.

 

[Madrab]

the water supplier thinks it either never had one or has been tarmacked over

+1 ... That's unacceptable, what happens if you get a burst and their water is being wasted and damaging lots of your property. There needs to be a point of isolation from the suppliers position at the boundary.

I'd be on to them again 'insisting' something is sorted out.

 

[James1979]

Hi all,

Thanks for all your replies; I have gone back to the Waterboard who I think will fit an external stopcock eventually but it's not a priority at the moment and I'm not a 'vulnerable' person so they don't know when it'll be.

In the meantime, the building work has exposed enough of the pipe in the wall to be able to freeze it, allowing me to replace the whole stopcock which is great.

The only issues I've not got is that if I freeze the section in the wall and remove the existing stopcock (including olive / nut) there won't be enough pipe left to put the new stopcock onto (there won't even be enough pipe to cut). So only other option is to cut it in the cavity and put a new length of copper on and coming out of the wall.

My question about that is that I'd only be happy to have a soldered joint in the cavity and this would melt the ice plug! So I'm nearly out of ideas again. Can you use an Aladdin isolator in a cavity? (I know it's ok for mains but don't know about in a cavity)

Thanks again for any help - photo attached!