How to wire a ceiling rose - four core cable

[SouthernTom]

I have a single four core cable coming in (presumably from the light switches) to a ceiling rose for a porch light with a four core cable which then goes on to feed an outside light.

There is only one feed into the ceiling rose:

- red
- yellow with red sleeve
- blue
- earth

The cable to the outside light is the same but the red wire is capped off at the light.

Could anyone tell me please how to connect the ceiling rose up so that both the porch light and the outside light work separately.

The two lights are operated by separate switches on a two gang plate so I'm guessing both the red and the yellow/red must be switched feeds but it doesn't seem to be working that way.

Thanks

Tom

 

[riveralt]

Photographs of the inside wiring of the ceiling rose and of the switches would go a good way to help determine whether what you ask is possible.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Has it ever worked?

What is the blue connected to at the switch?

Pictures are good.

 

[securespark]

Yay! We love pictures!

 

[rjm2k]

what are the wires which go to the outside light connected to in the rose?

at a guess, assuming it previously worked, as a layperson I would assume the 2 reds are both switched lives, one of which should be linked only to the porch light and the other should only be linked onto the outside light, the blue you would have to assume is neutral and should be connected to both, likewise the earth.

but you really need to post a photo of the inside of the switch and rose plus provide more info on what you have changed and if it used to work to take the guesswork out of the equation.

 

[SouthernTom]

Thank you all for the quick response. Apologies for the previous lack of pictures. I hadn't realised I could upload them

The problem is entirely my fault. I disconnected the rose without properly noting where the wires went but it does mean I know everything was working previously.

--------------------
Starting at the switch end, I have one two gang switch.

The cable from that is the left hand one of the two shown and has red, blue, yellow + red tag and earth wires.

These feed a porch light.

---------------------

The right hand cable is also red, blue, yellow + red tag and earth and goes on to feed the outside light. The red wire is capped off at the light so doesn't do anything but was previously wired in at the ceiling rose end, presumably for safety reasons.

---------------------

The ceiling rose has three sets of connectors and separate earth

So the question is how do I wire this so that one switch operates the porch light and the other the outside light.

Thanks

Tom

 

[SouthernTom]

just realised the images don't show - trying again
--------------------------------------------------------

Thank you all for the quick response. Apologies for the previous lack of pictures. I hadn't realised I could upload them

The problem is entirely my fault. I disconnected the rose without properly noting where the wires went but it does mean I know everything was working previously.

--------------------
Starting at the switch end, I have one two gang switch.

The cable from that is the left hand one of the two shown and has red, blue, yellow + red tag and earth wires.

These feed a porch light.

---------------------

The right hand cable is also red, blue, yellow + red tag and earth and goes on to feed the outside light. The red wire is capped off at the light so doesn't do anything but was previously wired in at the ceiling rose end, presumably for safety reasons.

---------------------

The ceiling rose has three sets of connectors and separate earth

So the question is how do I wire this so that one switch operates the porch light and the other the outside light.

Thanks

Tom

Ceiling wires

• SouthernTom
• 19 Jul 2013
• 1

Live feed on left, cable to porch light on right

The switch

• SouthernTom
• 19 Jul 2013
• 1

Outside light to left, porch light in centre. <br>Single blue wire to top right<br>Cross over...

Untitled

• SouthernTom
• 19 Jul 2013
• 1

 

[riveralt]

And the photograph of inside of the switch?
Is there terminal strip inside the switch holding the neutrals?
Do you have a multi-meter?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Power off.

Firstly, at the switch, confirm that the blue wire is connected to other blue or black wires and that the brown or red from this other cable is connected to the Com (with Com, L1, L2 terminals), (It may be L, L1, L2 or L1, L2, L3 - if so then transpose).

Only if it is as above - connect the red wire to L1 of one switch and yellow to L1 of the other swich and fit a link wire between the two Coms.
Connect all cpcs (earths) to earth.

At the first light, connect both reds to 'Live', both blues to 'N', both yellows to 'Loop' and cpcs to earth.

At the second light, connect yellow to 'Live', blue to 'N', red to 'Loop' (if using another rose or, if not, in a separate connector to terminate safely) and cpc to earth.


Then draw a diagram of what you have done so that you may understand what you have done for next time.

If you don't have at least a multimeter then you must get one before doing any other electrical work.

 

[SouthernTom]

Picture of the switch attached.

Turns out the switch is a three gang rather than a two gang.


As far as I can recall,

The switch

• SouthernTom
• 19 Jul 2013
• 1

Outside light to left, porch light in centre. <br>Single blue wire to top right<br>Cross over...

- the switch on the left as you look at the picture is for the outside light

- the switch in the centre is for the porch light (although the cable for the porch light only actually runs from the ceiling rose to the porch light and not to the switch)

- the right hand switch is for the inside light

The only blue wire in the switch goes to the connection at the top right as you look at the photo. There is a cross over connection from here to the bottom side of the centre switch as you look at it

I've also included a photo of the main cable behind the switch

Big wire

• SouthernTom
• 19 Jul 2013
• 1

Big multi-core wire at the back

As far as I can tell this has multiple wires but I can't access sufficiently to see many.

I have a multi-meter - image of readings attached. (1 refers to the left hand switch (outside light). 2 refers to the centre switch - porch light)

Untitled

• SouthernTom
• 19 Jul 2013
• 1

Thanks

Tom

 

[EFLImpudence]

There are two blues in the second picture.

You must confirm that the one NOT in the first picture is connected to neutrals.


Your chart is not much help.
The voltages should be referenced to earth.
I.e. one probe on the wire and the other probe to earth.

All that is needed are continuity readings to verify which wire is which from one location to another.

 

[riveralt]

Ugh!

Okay starter for 10.
One blue wire shown at the switch but I can see two blue wires in what you call the main cable - where does the second blue wire go?

Must type quicker!!!!!!!!!!

Does the inside light operate as a two way?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Also (picture one) you should remove the link wire from the top right terminal and use it to connect both commons of the left and centre switches.

It won't make any difference but you have different supplies to each of the two lights.

 

[SouthernTom]

Just to confirm - there is only one blue wire to the switch. The other is connected to black wires with a connecting box which was buried.

Untitled

• SouthernTom
• 19 Jul 2013
• 1

The meter readings between wires and earth are as follows. (These are for the left hand cable at the ceiling. The other cable goes to the outside light)

Untitled

• SouthernTom
• 19 Jul 2013
• 1

The porch and outside lights are both one way switches.

The inside light (right hand switch) is actually a four way switched light.

----------------
Since the switches have not been touched, I presume I just need to work out the feeds and connections at the ceiling rose. Is that possible from the information provided?

Thanks again

Tom

 

[EFLImpudence]

Since the switches have not been touched, I presume I just need to work out the feeds and connections at the ceiling rose. Is that possible from the information provided?

You don't seem to be responding to the replies very well.

Yes, connect them as I have written above and also move the link wire.