I got an Unsatisfactory

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Had a recent system due to the completion of some fairly major works. Will need quite a bit of help from someone kind. The install was carried out by an electrician, the test by his mate. Here goes the observations:

1. Outside light (to rear of garage) not suitably IP rated. (2)

2. Switch to outside light (to rear of garage not suitably IP rated. (2)

3. No phase identification to lights/switchs as required at various points. (4)

4. No earth to metal back boxes on switchs. (particularly thoise with metal face plates) (2)

5. No up to date circuit charts at distribution or warning labels. Supplied with this certificate (4)

6. Circuits not indelibly identified. (Rectified at time of inspection)

7. Absence of local supplementary bonding where required (lighting and extraneuos conductive parts in special areas. Bathrooms and kitchen (1)

8. No earth to metal back boxes on socket outlets. (4)

9. No green and yellow sleeving to c.p.c at lights/switchs at various points. (4)

10. DB1/4 circuit overloaded. (Too many lights for one circuit) (2)

11. Earth Fault Loop Impedance rating at one TSSO in Bedroom 1 signifcantly higher than others 1.02 agaisnt 0.48 next highest) (3)


Actions taken so far
1. Replaced with IP 54 light. (This wasn't me it was there when I moved in and is also under cover - but now replaced)

2. Replaced with IP44 switch. (As above)

3. All mine had red tags on. The new ones didn't but I have rectified accordingly. I assume that I need brown tags for blue switched lives. Yes it was all the new wiring that didn't have the tags!

4. All normal light switchs have earth in place; except for those with metal face plates which are all Futronix switch panels on a LV databus only. No live is present at these switchs. Do I need to run a dedicated earth - which will be a pain.

5. It was a brand new consumer unit that had been installed by the electrician following its relocation. Why hadn't he done this! Rectified at time of test

6. Same as above

7. Bonding. One bathroom has exposed pipe work for the bath, the bath is being removed. Everything else is buried in walls, including the taps & the shower. Where do I put the bonding?

The en-suite has in-wall showers & taps, toilet is wall hung & has a hidden cistern, behind tiles.

The main bathroom has a bath with pump, shower mixer & some pipes under it for the bath & the shower, should I cross bond these?

What about the radiators in all the bathrooms. These bathrooms are all new and have no bonding on the radiators. Do they require it? I can cross bond in the airing cupboard which is not in any of the bathrooms. but does have hot & cold feeds for the whole house, heating circuits, towel radiator circuits, gas for boiler.

The kitchen is due for removal and refit next so will be remedied at that time.

8. This is next on my to check list and will remedy what I find. I estimate this will take most of a day with funiture moves etc.

9. No green & yellow sleeving to c.p.c at lights/switchs as required at various points. I swear he made this one up. I have checked all switchs and can't find find one without. I guess I will check all light fittings next.

10. Circuit overloaded. Yes it has 26 lights on it. 10 of which are in the living room, 3 in the hall, and 1 on the landing all running off a Futronix lighting controller. In addition 8 in the kitchen & 4 in the bathroom. If they are all counted at 100W it is overloaded. As most of the light fittings are either 55W halogen transformers or max 60w fittings it isn't overloaded. Especially as the lighting controller which has 14 on it would not put them all on at once without being reconfigured.
I can however run another cable to the Futronix controller and wire separately as I have a spare on the consumer unit and can all be done through crawl spaces or wiring channels. I would estimate 2 hours for the cable run and 1 hour to make final connections.

11. I guess I will find this when I check item 8. I do know that there are two sockets split from one original to be either side of the bed using chocolate blocks under a blanking plate.


I look foward to all the comments & any help will be appreciated.

FootSore
 
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What do you mean "remedy kitchen supp bonding"? What edition are you working to: the 15th? :LOL:

No. 10 - have not got OSG with me - you are allowed diversity for domestic lighting circuit, 66% of total current demand? 10A breaker?

No. 11 - that reading is within my limit of 1.2 for 32A B type: why note it?
 
11. Earth Fault Loop Impedance rating at one TSSO in Bedroom 1 signifcantly higher than others 1.02 agaisnt 0.48 next highest) (3)

is that actually a failure though? obviously we dont know what the prtective device is but, is this actually a problem?
 
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As it is significantly higher than that of the others it may indicate there is an underlying problem, it requires further investigation.
 
Thanks for help so far


Securespark
Do I not need bonding in the kitchen then? In which case why did he flag it? What about the bathrooms?

No.10 I guess it may still be high.

No.11 Because he was a pedant I guess (& maybe because it was so much lower than the rest.)

Ricicle
Lounge - 4 Wall Lights for normal day use
- 6 ceiling halogens for lighting effects (fireplace/sofas)
- 1 lamp
All powered by 2000W 8 channel Futronix controller & 4 switch panels. Think home cinema & lounge all rolled into one. He should have checked the current draw on the amp and asked why it wasn't on its own circuit! Also controls:
Hall - 2 Picture lights
- 1 Halogen Spot
Landing - 2 Halogen Spots

Kitchen - 3 under worksurface lights
- 1 uplighter over table
- 4 lights on track in main kitchen area
All controlled by 2 two-way switchs in single gang triple switchs. God that was a tight fit - deep back boxes.

Bathroom - 4 Ceiling Spots
- Bathroom Cabinet with 2* little halogens
A pullcord!

Seems reasonable to me.

ELZ4742 & Spark123
On the protected side of an RCD in brand new consumer unit.
Has never been a problem to me but guess I don't want to find it is a problem at the wrong time. It is only switch so I will have a look, makes sense.
 
FootSore said:
Securespark
Do I not need bonding in the kitchen then? In which case why did he flag it? What about the bathrooms?

No.10 I guess it may still be high.

No.11 Because he was a pedant I guess (& maybe because it was so much lower than the rest.)


Supp in kitchen? Kicked out of 16th, wasn't it? Parallel earth paths and all that jazz.

I agree. It is high, but if the regs allow diversity....

Does not matter if he is a pedant or if it is twice the rest. It may be a spur running miles, but if the EFLI is within spec, it's OK.

You are a qualified spark, aren't you?

Wonder why you're querying basic points, that's all.
 
What about the radiators in all the bathrooms. These bathrooms are all new and have no bonding on the radiators. Do they require it? I can cross bond in the airing cupboard which is not in any of the bathrooms. but does have hot & cold feeds for the whole house, heating circuits, towel radiator circuits, gas for boiler

bath rads dont need to be bonded if you get a value less than 0.05ohms between the rad and a cold water pipe
 
What is the obsession with cold water pipes? The different water pipes (and other ECPs) entering a bathroom need to be supplementary equipotentially bonded together along with the cpcs of any circuits entering the zones. This can be done either in the bathroom or in close proximity. The supplementary bonding conductors should be in the order of 0.05ohms or less.

Re the socket, a rise of 0.5 ohms would initially indicate a spur cable length of approximately 25m (using 2.5mm² twin and earth @ 20ºC). This is maybe why it has caught the inspectors eye, ripping the floorboards up may have been outside the limitiations of the PIR.
 
its just usually on an existing heating system its the most convienient way of doing it. hardly an obsession...
 
Spark123 said:
Re the socket, a rise of 0.5 ohms would initially indicate a spur cable length of approximately 25m (using 2.5mm² twin and earth @ 20ºC). This is maybe why it has caught the inspectors eye, ripping the floorboards up may have been outside the limitiations of the PIR.

Or less distance on (eg) 1.0mm²... ;)
 
Sorry, out all day doing a meter survey. I saw a picture of some meters on another post. I have thousands of pictures of both gas & electric meters. I work for an energy management company and provide metering services. So I see plenty of 11kV stuff but don't touch it.

I am only a mere DIYer but find wiring electrics relatively straigthfoward (logical brain) and can research quite well and follow instructions very well. Therefore have never had any problems getting stuff installed and working and have installed everyting from consumer unit onwards in the past. Not always up to date with the regulations but try my best.

I had lunch with an electrician and he confirmed that bonding in kitchens was removed in the 15th. And that bonding in bathrooms is going in the 17th in July - so if I wait until then it will then comply!

Airing cupboard is < 3m in total from the extremes of each bathroom and rads are <1m in distance. Will cross bond in airing cupboard and get them tested. I have bought the earth tags and 4.0mm earth cable and will only take an hour to fit.

I will check the spur in the bedroom and cable diameters, I didn't do this nor I suspect did an electrician. If I find it easy to improve I will, if not I will make a note with form that it is within parameters.


Any comments of lack of earth at metal switch panels on databus. The switchs have no earth points. Does it make a difference if I replace metal boxes with plastic. Should I have an run an earth in addition to the data cable. It is only rated at 12V

Thanks for comments so far.

FootSore
 
FootSore said:
... bonding in bathrooms is going in the 17th in July - so if I wait until then it will then comply!

July 2008. And there's more to it than that. Proposed Section 701 still specifies supplementary bonding, but there's also a requirement for RCD protection.
 
I agree Dingbat, do you think RCD of ALL circuits in a bathroom is OTT though. The way the DPC is written it requires SELV circuits and separated shaver sockets to be on RCD!!
 

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