Who are you?
SD gave incorrect advice simple.
SD gave incorrect advice simple.
I hate asking the question, but here goes... it's about SIZE
- Thread starter funkydiver
- Start date
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14 rads and two bathrooms son, 
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It was my idea to run a combi in all fairness. No point in shooting posters providing advice in the posts above due to my choice, lol...
It's a difficult choice for us to make in all honesty.
Looking at the specs of a few, and using our current hot water requirements running off an Ideal Logic+ 30 combi, we don't struggle at present.
We're going to be living in the place for at least 15 years, basically due to the ages of our kids and the fact we're going to be mortgage free. So I reckon which ever route we take I can kinda foresee the needs from that perspective.
The options and advice given are great, and obviously everyone has their own perspective on what's right, as an uneducated I just need to start weighing up the options and take it from there.
Reality is that 3 of us shower, the wife prefers a bath and the two little uns share a bath (which I know will change as they get older)
My head says... System boiler for heating. Combi/water heater for water, particularly as I like a mains fed shower over an electric (yeuch!) and don't perticularly want to go shoving in pumps, etc to boost the pressure. The water pressure squirtiness is just dandy so I'm not overly concerned about that (I presume that's the dynamic flow rate to which you refer, lol)
Looking at some of the larger combis, and I've tried to keep it simple by comparing one manufacturer, a £1000 increase in budget doesn't really give THAT much improvement in flow rate 20 L/min as opposed to 18 L/min, and actually reduces the output of the CH side of things.
Ultimately, the challenge I have is that where the header tank and water storage tank currently lives is in a part of the building that is being separated off from the main building and sold. So Location of a new tank is a BIG factor, in that there isn't anywhere I would LIKE one to be put. Access to the feed pipes and central heating pipework is not an issue however. It's a big Victorian house... but no stoarge / cupboards. Odd I know, lol.
I'm gonna get up there today and measure up everywhere, at least then I can provide you kind folks with details to help me make an informed choice. But, thank you all so far for the insights to date. I'll be back later
It's a difficult choice for us to make in all honesty.
Looking at the specs of a few, and using our current hot water requirements running off an Ideal Logic+ 30 combi, we don't struggle at present.
We're going to be living in the place for at least 15 years, basically due to the ages of our kids and the fact we're going to be mortgage free. So I reckon which ever route we take I can kinda foresee the needs from that perspective.
The options and advice given are great, and obviously everyone has their own perspective on what's right, as an uneducated I just need to start weighing up the options and take it from there.
Reality is that 3 of us shower, the wife prefers a bath and the two little uns share a bath (which I know will change as they get older)
My head says... System boiler for heating. Combi/water heater for water, particularly as I like a mains fed shower over an electric (yeuch!) and don't perticularly want to go shoving in pumps, etc to boost the pressure. The water pressure squirtiness is just dandy so I'm not overly concerned about that (I presume that's the dynamic flow rate to which you refer, lol)
Looking at some of the larger combis, and I've tried to keep it simple by comparing one manufacturer, a £1000 increase in budget doesn't really give THAT much improvement in flow rate 20 L/min as opposed to 18 L/min, and actually reduces the output of the CH side of things.
Ultimately, the challenge I have is that where the header tank and water storage tank currently lives is in a part of the building that is being separated off from the main building and sold. So Location of a new tank is a BIG factor, in that there isn't anywhere I would LIKE one to be put. Access to the feed pipes and central heating pipework is not an issue however. It's a big Victorian house... but no stoarge / cupboards. Odd I know, lol.
I'm gonna get up there today and measure up everywhere, at least then I can provide you kind folks with details to help me make an informed choice. But, thank you all so far for the insights to date. I'll be back later
14 rads and two bathrooms son,
14 rooms actually. Son.
Wind yer neck in bonny lad.
In a large sprawling house having long legs between draw offs is wasteful and a secondary return equally so. An Intergas Combi Compact HRE40 would be a perfect choice and when compared to the system boiler equivalent, is half the cost extra over the cost of decent secondary return equipment.
Fitting a high powered combi to feed kitchens, utilities and cloakrooms which are likely to have low volume draws, unlikely to get hot water from a remote cylinder efficiently, can be an advantage.
It also allows a downstairs shower to be independent of timing and MV failure on a cylinder.
An unvented cylinder - or if the mains isn't up to it - an open vented cylinder, can then be fitted on an S plan as normal.
Weather compensation can still be used with a little bit of nouce, and the installation can be staged to suit budget, timetable and developing plans.
Hence the idea of fitting a combi in large houses can make MORE sense.
Now, you were saying?
OP, don't think of the Combi as running the whole house. A lot boils down to where the draw points are in relation to the various bits - cylinder, boiler etc.
If you have high pressure but low flow off the mains then you'll need on of of the following:
New water main,
Accumulator
Pumps.
Lots of ways to skin this cat and you need all the information looked at as a whole. Remember we can't see the floor plans.
There are also plenty of try hards on here that give silly advice based on a lot of Googleering.
If you have high pressure but low flow off the mains then you'll need on of of the following:
New water main,
Accumulator
Pumps.
Lots of ways to skin this cat and you need all the information looked at as a whole. Remember we can't see the floor plans.
There are also plenty of try hards on here that give silly advice based on a lot of Googleering.
I'm sure it'll make a lot more sense once I have the dimensions and floor plan up later.
All the hot water requirements are pretty much centralised to one part of the house, so it's not as if there is going to be oodles of pipe to run through before hitting the tap.
If anything, the pipe work will be more advantageous as they'll be shorter after the change over.
I have an issue with shoving in a tank, but that's purely because there isn't anywhere logical to stick it without it being an eyesore / inconvenience.
IF it makes sense then I'll find somewhere... but having switched to a combi from a tank system in the current house 5 years ago, we're kinda used to the convenience and lower utility bills now, so in some respects I am blinkered towards a combi. But I can take the blinkers off if needed (read REALLY REALLY HAVE TO, lol!)
All the hot water requirements are pretty much centralised to one part of the house, so it's not as if there is going to be oodles of pipe to run through before hitting the tap.
If anything, the pipe work will be more advantageous as they'll be shorter after the change over.
I have an issue with shoving in a tank, but that's purely because there isn't anywhere logical to stick it without it being an eyesore / inconvenience.
IF it makes sense then I'll find somewhere... but having switched to a combi from a tank system in the current house 5 years ago, we're kinda used to the convenience and lower utility bills now, so in some respects I am blinkered towards a combi. But I can take the blinkers off if needed (read REALLY REALLY HAVE TO, lol!)
8)
Now now, it's just a boiler =)
I'd like to think I'm sensible enough to weigh up my options and take it from there, so rather than a "this is right, that is wrong" it's all about individual points of view. Of which we're all entitled.
I work in domestic / commercial satellite... so in terms of offering options, there are many. Ultimately though, whatever is offered, I need to make sure that a sensible decision based on cost / advantage can be made.
I am kinda hoping that will be the case here? (Is that possible in forum world I wonder?)
I'd like the convenience / versatility of a combi, I see no point in heating a tank of water that then gets used to fill a dishwasher once in the day, but that's my preference. We don't live in the bath, so having a tank full of water to luxuriously bathe all of us every day isn't a requirement.
As I said, I'll get some stuff together then, maybe, I might be able to make an informed choice.
For reference, I've been looking at the specs on the Worcester Greenstar 42CDi for my baseline. I know what I have now, and the limitations it's currently presenting ( thermostatic shower, bath running, dish washer and sink kills it) but those limitations are pretty rare in all honesty.
EDIT : Thank you for your edit winchangoonygog. You know what I mean
I'd like to think I'm sensible enough to weigh up my options and take it from there, so rather than a "this is right, that is wrong" it's all about individual points of view. Of which we're all entitled.
I work in domestic / commercial satellite... so in terms of offering options, there are many. Ultimately though, whatever is offered, I need to make sure that a sensible decision based on cost / advantage can be made.
I am kinda hoping that will be the case here? (Is that possible in forum world I wonder?)
I'd like the convenience / versatility of a combi, I see no point in heating a tank of water that then gets used to fill a dishwasher once in the day, but that's my preference. We don't live in the bath, so having a tank full of water to luxuriously bathe all of us every day isn't a requirement.
As I said, I'll get some stuff together then, maybe, I might be able to make an informed choice.
For reference, I've been looking at the specs on the Worcester Greenstar 42CDi for my baseline. I know what I have now, and the limitations it's currently presenting ( thermostatic shower, bath running, dish washer and sink kills it) but those limitations are pretty rare in all honesty.
EDIT : Thank you for your edit winchangoonygog. You know what I mean
Why do you imagine that you have lower utility bills in your current house after switching to a combi?
The reality is that a combi and a stored system cost about the same to operate with only a very slight cost advantage with a stored system if it is set up correctly.
You don't seem to be fully aware of the disadvantages of a combi, the worst of which are that it only supplies one hot outlet at a time whereas a stored system will supply two or three.
The next in line is that while delivering hot water it is not providing heating. That may be less of a problem in a well insulated house but with an old and poorly insulated house it can cool a lot with an hour with no heating.
You also don't seem to realise that a storage combi only gives an enhanced flow rate for a few minutes.
Tony
The reality is that a combi and a stored system cost about the same to operate with only a very slight cost advantage with a stored system if it is set up correctly.
You don't seem to be fully aware of the disadvantages of a combi, the worst of which are that it only supplies one hot outlet at a time whereas a stored system will supply two or three.
The next in line is that while delivering hot water it is not providing heating. That may be less of a problem in a well insulated house but with an old and poorly insulated house it can cool a lot with an hour with no heating.
You also don't seem to realise that a storage combi only gives an enhanced flow rate for a few minutes.
Tony
... because I pay the bills and keep a record of my meter readings?
The boiler is the only appliance in the house on mains gas, so I can pretty much rule out anything else.
Everything will be taken into account when I have the information available.
End of the day, how the house is right now... is not how it will be in 8 months, so I'm thinking ahead to the time when it will be properly insulated. Loft and underfloor insulation will be completed by June. The underfloor I'm doing a room at a time on the ground floor as I deal with the uneven floors... so I'm putting all that in my head and for consideration when I choose a heating system.
Not being a plumber doesn't make me a doofus, lol. I'm aware of the advantages and disadvantages of both systems, just not the capabilities at this point. But I'm learning
Thank you for your input
Dan wasn't advocating a combi for the whole house Tony, he was suggesting using a combi to feed the nearest outlets and use the heating side to heat a cylinder as well as the rads.
system boiler and unvented cylinder will give you all your heating requirements and hot water at mains pressure . Simples.
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