I hate to rake it up, but here's HSE's version of Competence

[Onetap]

Forums and comments board are full of people saying DIY gas at home is OK that it is not against the law. I really think they are ignorant, wrong and dangerous people.

No, they're right. The law is based on the Health and Safety at Work Acts and have no bearing on what people do in the privacy of their own home. The HSE haven't introduced legislation banning DIY gas fitting, because there is no history of serious problems with it.

You may prefer that the law says something different, but you (TaraPlumbing) have a vested interest. The law says what it says, so please stop telling people that it says what you'd like it to say.

Similarly, the legionella legislation is based on the Health and Safety at Work Acts and does not apply to domestic premises. I've been told by many deluded people, including industry 'professionals' that you can't get legionella from domestic water systems and that there's no history of anyone becoming ill from a domestic water system. Utter tosh, it's just not notifiable and it's not recorded.

 

[doitall]

Well said Mrs Tara Plumbing, and completely 100% wrong.

MT @ Corgi said DIY gas in this country is not a problem (Official)

Gassafe said more or less the same DIY gas work is not illegal in the UK.

By all means a DIYer can break the law doing DIY gas but that is a different story altogether.

And before anyone goes off on one.

A. I have the correspondence, to prove the above.

B. I think the sooner they ban DIY gas the better.

C. B, will never happen because the sheds have too much of a vested interest.

 

[Agile]

I dont think that John is right about "C" above.

This is because they dont have any input to the parties which make decisions and secondly because a high proportion of their sales of gas related parts are to professionals OR to be fitted by professionals.

In fact many prospective DIY boiler installers will research the market and buy a better boiler like a Vaillant which the sheds dont sell.

Last week I saw a hob fitted with a cooker hose ( not allowed ) and leaking gas. That had been done by a professional builder!

A high ptoportion of the gas problems are by unregistered tradesmed like kitchen fitters etc. Not DIYers!

Tony

 

[doitall]

At least one of the sheds was on the corgy council.

 

[MrsTaraPlumbing]

!

A high ptoportion of the gas problems are by unregistered tradesmed like kitchen fitters etc. Not DIYers!

Tony

Very true - infact there is a TB about exactly that in the members only section of GSR.
I think it is called "WORK"
But those of us with access to TB on members only section of GSR are not the people who need to read it!

Doitall.
I understand why you say I am wrong... I think it is because of my short hand "diy gas illegal"
If I changed the words to "incompetent DIYers" do you think I am right.
And when I say incompetent I mean people who have not done something like equivalent training/ experience as needed to be a GSR operative.

Deb

 

[doitall]

No Mrs P I know you are not right.

Granted they say you should be Competent, but on the other hand they can't define competence.

In the work place you have training or should have, in some cases nothing short of a paper exercise.

I can tinker with my car to the cows come home, and provided I don't have an accident or kill someone I must be competent. Sorry Gas, running around the garden with a 240v machine, climbing on the roof etc is no different "I'm competent until it goes wrong"

 

[Onetap]

And when I say incompetent I mean people who have not done something like equivalent training/ experience as needed to be a GSR operative.

Gas fitters can hardly complain about DIYers not ahving done the training, when it was Corgi and/or Gas safe that barred DIYers from training courses.

This isn't about safety. SFAIK, no-one has been killed by a DIY gas installation. It's about money, the training centres milking RGIs for obligatory training and tests and RGIs milking gas consumers for all gas work. The people who don't use RGIs are (mostly) those who can't afford them.

Stop whining about it and get on with your lives.

 

[MrsTaraPlumbing]

, no-one has been killed by a DIY gas installation..

There certainly have been deaths due to gas installations by people who are incompetent and were not qualified (and not GSR registered). I don't know about DIY off the top of my head now, but I can think of prosecutions of by HSE of DIYers.
But as I said - they were prosecuted because their work was found to be dangerous.

The GSR site currently says DIY gas work is or may be illegal.
I am pretty sure the ACOP also speaks about DIY work.

Right now I have got to get on with my life! may come back to this but not until after mothers day...

 

[doitall]

The GSR site currently says DIY gas work is or may be illegal.

Is or maybe

About sums the industry up nicely, certainly it can't be both, it has to be one or the other.

 

[Johnmelad]

The GSR site currently says DIY gas work is or may be illegal.

Is or maybe

About sums the industry up nicely, certainly it can't be both, it has to be one or the other.

//www.diynot.com/forums/plumbing/diy-gas.8090/

 

[doitall]

This site does not support DIY gas and posts giving advice on gas work may be deleted. However, posts are not routinely monitored, so no work should be done as a result of seeing anything on the site.

The above quote sums it up, and most if not all Agree with it.

 

[MrsTaraPlumbing]

... The law is based on the Health and Safety at Work Acts and have no bearing on what people do in the privacy of their own home. The HSE haven't introduced legislation banning DIY gas fitting, because there is no history of serious problems with it.

Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998
Approved Code of Practice and guidance (2011 edition)

introduction page 11 states:
"The terms ‘gas engineer’ and ‘engineer’ are not defined in GSIUR but are used in the guidance and ACOP; in this context they mean any person who carries out work on a gas system or gas stovrage vessel. This includes.... working on their own behalf, ie in ‘do-it-yourself’ activity."

In the GSIU 1998:
"“work” in relation to a gas fitting includes any of the following activities carried out
by any person, whether an employee or not, that is to say -
(a) installing or re-connecting the fitting;
(b) maintaining, servicing, permanently adjusting, disconnecting, repairing,
altering or renewing the fitting or purging it of air or gas;
(c) where the fitting is not readily movable, changing its position; and
(d) removing the fitting."

the ACOP says:
22 ... ‘work’ includes do-it-yourself activities, work undertaken as a favour for friends and relatives, ... This means that anyone carrying out such work must have the necessary competence, as required by regulation 3(1). However, membership of an HSE approved class of persons (under regulation 3(3)) is required only by businesses carrying out gas fitting work (see paragraphs 43–45)."

Acop 23 is also relevant to those thinking about DIY work, servicing their own gas appliances etc...

GSIU 1998 states:
"(3)
(1) No person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas
storage vessel unless he is competent to do so."

ONETAP - this applies equally to DIYers, GSR engineers and everyone else. Even in the privacy of your own home.
Furthermore.
There are many prosecutions by HSE specifically under this term.

You may prefer that the law says something different... The law says what it says, so please stop telling people that it says what you'd like it to say. .

I know what the law says - I need to for my work - you should check your facts .

but you (TaraPlumbing) have a vested interest.

A reasonable assumption as my business is GSR - but actually it is because of the knowledge I have through my professional experience that makes me want to speak out on 2 points:
1. importance of employing a professional for gas work,
2. importance of getting gas appliances checked & serviced.

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