Ian Tomlinson 'seemed drunk', G20 police officer says

[imamartian]

so you won't answer your own question

waste of oxygen you are.

you still haven't answered yours yet... and i asked first !!

and you say you're going to tell a deaf man that he can't go home?

(and John. please try to be a bit less insulting, i am not a waste of oxygen!!)

 

[imamartian]

ok so i guess, asking the really angry, deaf anarchist to move along has tested your patience John... what you gonna do now? eh??

 

[JohnD]

I've already answered that I'd go for option 2, and I've pointed out what option 2 is.

But you won't say what you'd do.





You are introducing extra irrelevant fog like deafness, and pretending that the old newspaper seller was an anarchist rioter, contrary to all the evidence. I suppose you're making up these things hoping they will sound like an adequate excuse for a vioent and fatal assault by a thug.

 

[imamartian]

but do you know, for sure he isn't deaf? at that moment?

 

[imamartian]

you want me to answer so you can pick holes in what i say... well lets pick over the holes in your argument first!! (without insults please)

 

[JohnD]

You've forgotten to answer your question.




No, not forgotten, you're deliberately evading it.

 

[imamartian]

You've forgotten to answer your question.




No, not forgotten, you're deliberately evading it.

dear oh dear John....

ok, lets let you evade your answer...

if you were to ask me my question (which you didn't)... then i think i would rely on my police training and assess every person who stood in front of me, and then use reasonable force as necessary..

in my estimation, i think i could forcibly push most people to the point where they were to tumble over, without expecting them to die... this guy was an exception to the rule. And just like fire engines rushing to fires and running over kids... it goes wrong sometimes. The question you need to answer is "did the copper mean to kill someone".... i think not !

now you got your way... and my original question based around the deaf guy!

 

[steveshapiro]

Calm down gentlemen, no need to argue... Bottom line is that the police shouldn't have attacked Mr. tomlinson, and now that they did, he is dead. Somebody needs to be held accountable for that sad fact.

 

[imamartian]

Calm down gentlemen, no need to argue... Bottom line is that the police shouldn't have attacked Mr. tomlinson, and now that they did, he is dead. Somebody needs to be held accountable for that sad fact.

attack? or push?

 

[joinerjohn]

Martian, Open your eyes . Did Ian Tomlinson actually break any laws or was he breaking any laws when asked to move on by the police? Simple answer,,, No he wasn't.

Put it this way,,, Say you were caught up in a similar situation and some copper asked you to move on,,, you'd move on (at whatever pace you felt like) Would you like it if the copper hit you and pushed you to the ground (in the way that Ian Tomlinson was) just because you were moving too slowly for this coppers liking??
I'm sure you wouldn't.
The video evidence is fairly clear on this. Ian Tomlinson did nothing that broke the law. A police woman has stated to the court , that she thought the reaction of the copper involved was "Out of all proportion". remember, She's a professional too)
Ian Tomlinson was an ordinary citizen, going about his lawful business, when some thug cut his life extremely short (as seen on video)
I know the police have a stressful job etc, but there was absolutely no need for the way this individual reacted.
As before, This policeman is a disgrace to the uniform of the Met, and should be sacked, for exceeding his authority.

 

[joinerjohn]

attack? or push?

Considering the video evidence, I'd say ,attacked, in a most vile way, from behind by an officer of the law.
Christ sake Martian,, What video have you been watching? I'm sure it's not the same one that thousands of others have been looking at. Unless you feel the need to go to Specsavers?

 

[misterdubya]

OK, so here I am, a copper, and I'm ordered to prevent people getting out of an area.

During my training I was told that it is frowned upon to assault members of the public without good reason.

I am wound up with excitement and aggression, have taken off my identification, and have already assaulted a BBC cameraman from behind and thrown him to the ground, so I'm feeling pretty tough.

Some old newspaper seller approaches a large number of officers, of who I am one. He says he is trying to go home. I look him over and form an opinion as to whether he is a violent rioter attacking the police and presenting a danger, or some half-cut, shambling old bloke with his hands in his pockets.

I'm on the spot. Should I assault him from behind? Or shall I just tell him he can't go home?

I suppose the answer depends on me. Am I a violent thug looking for an outlet for my aggression, or am I a skilled and highly-trained professional trying to maintain order and respect for the law?

You asked what I would do.

Option 2.

And you?

Martian, why cant you answer this question?
Before you evade it further by asking me........ Option 2.

Have you involved the moderators yet?

Mr. W.

 

[Nige F]

Calm down gentlemen, no need to argue... Bottom line is that the police shouldn't have attacked Mr. tomlinson, and now that they did, he is dead. Somebody needs to be held accountable for that sad fact.

A voice of reason Thankyou

 

[cumbriahandyman]

You hate the police if you wish...

How silly

You think that disapproving of the actions of a violent thug is the same as hating the police?

Yes he does, he made the same assumption (he makes a lot of them) on the tread about the rescue services failing to rescue a mad from a paddling pool.

I think Imamartian likes to defend the indefencible.

 

[joinerjohn]

I honestly believe that Martian is just playing Devil's Advocate.