Ideal E Type RS100N BGC41 409 08

[Icontainnospaces]

This boiler isn't new; the instructions stuck on the boiler's inside cover are dated 11/77 (tho they could still be using those instructions today ).

The problem is that the solenoid controlling the gas valve isn't always able to open the valve. On the occasions when this happens, the solenoid buzzes for a second or so as it tries to open the valve. Then it has a break for a while until it tries again. (Does the solenoid have a temp cutout to stop it from frying itself?)

The valve opens and the boiler fires first time more frequently than it doesn't.

Does anyone know if this - or an equivalent valve - is still available? The valve is stamped 7743. And then, what is it likely to cost to buy and have installed? Is this the time to be thinking of going fully pumped with a high efficiency boiler?

 

[ChrisR]

You can certainly still get gas valve for it. Look again for numbers. What colour is the operating button(s). Others here will know I daresay. They're probably older than me

 

[DP]

Check out the thermostat.

Gas valve will be V4600A1026 most likely if it has a grey button.

Not much to go wrong with this boiler. I would suggest a system cleanse and conversion to fully pumped if not already done. You will save yourself a packet in repair costs. OK it will not be 95% efficient (when cold) but it will outsee any condensing boiler you fit. And long term is liable to be cheaper to upkeep.

 

[Icontainnospaces]

Thanks for the replies ChrisR & DP.

There is a grey button on the valve and a code on what I thought was the solenoid which is on the top left of the valve. The code is V404A10712.

Any idea what it should cost to get the problem sorted? I live in South Bucks.

 

[ChrisR]

V404A is the electrical operator bit (4 x 4 x 10 cm ish)- which you could change separately but grey button gas valves aren't too expensive whole. Gosh just looked it up - £100 + vat or so RRP. PLus a call-out/hour.

 

[namsag]

RRP of gas valve is only £50.60 plus vat total £59.46 from www.onlinespares.com . Trade price can be had for £48 inc. solenoid operator if you can source one is only couple of quid cheaper and only takes 10 mins to fit.

 

[ChrisR]

I only quote RRP's (eg at Partscenter) of things because that is what most fitters would charge. If you mend a boiler and want to charge £X for your part you wouldn't be very obliging if the guy you fitted it for said his mate can get them for half £X.

Of course discounts are widespread - I've got a price list in front of me showing those gas valves at much less than the price quoted above, and the operator much less again. Another example - "Boxer" quoted them here at £22, but so what, it's misleading?
Where any of us get parts from and the price we pay, is of course in all senses, "our business".

 

[namsag]

Simple thing is we are all in business to make money, obviously no problem with that. But if you want to earn say £80 quid on a job then be brave enough to tell the customer it`s that amount don`t make it up by saying labour is £40 and adding £40 to the parts. People might not like paying but they will appreciate the honesty when the y find out how much the part actually cost . With the internet and sites like this true prices are easily found and amazing how many customers mention it.

 

[ChrisR]

They will never know the true cost of the parts, any more than you or I do when, say, getting vehicles or electronic goods repaired.
There isn't anything dishonest in making a profit. Maximising the profit by better buying doesn't make it dishonest either.

(All figs including vat), the RRP of a Suprima board is £230. If you buy it from a branch of Partscenter, with a trade discount, it'll cost you about £161. If you had more time or chose to hold stock, you could get them easily for £120. With a bit more work/difficulty, £60. If you buy in bulk ex Potterton and agree not to sell them below the price they dictate, £25.

A Halstead Quattro hydraulic valve comes up as £176 at Partscentre. And that's what a Halstead Fitter will charge for the part. You know as well as I do that the identical same make part can be had for about £25 from the price list, but it'll take a little while to get.

So how much do you think you "should" sell that for? Publishing discount prices on this forum is in my opinion NOT clever, I shall edit this post later. It's misleading to the consumer and does harm to people who always buy from the local supplier. Why should they pay you say £200 for a Suprima board when I can sell them one for £60, eh? (which I can)

I've worked in a few industries and know the same situation exists widely. Every time you pay full whack for a manufactured article you're paying many times as much as the item ex-factory. For car parts a while ago, it was x11.

Potty sell a Suprima 100 for twice as much as a 30, though it probably costs them very little more to get it to market. Why? Its their business.

 

[bathjobby]

Icontainnospaces; If you have a multimeter put it on the solonoid when you have the problem and check that the power to it is not intermittent. I had exactley this same problem, slowly getting worse, and found the power was intermittent. Chased the supply wire back to the circuit board and found a dry solder joint causing the problem. Been just fine for a year now. Worth a check before you spend money.

 

[Icontainnospaces]

Thanks bathjobby. Yes, I've got a meter. I'll give it a go but I'm not that hopeful; there is no circuit board, everything is hard wired to a strip of terminal blocks .

I'll let you know if it works...

 

[Icontainnospaces]

ChrisR & namsag. I feel a bit guilty about the err, debate, on parts prices and charging rates. I wasn't trying to get it done on the cheap but I did ask for the info. The reason for this was to try to help me make a judgment on repair or new boiler.

In truth, I can't remember the last time I had a car serviced without the parts all being shown and priced on the invoice. I guess the important thing to those of us on the receiving end of trade services is that we don't get ripped of by one of the few whose work can taint the reputaion of the many.

Thanks for your advice.

 

[namsag]

Well chris thats a long way of saying you don`t say what exactly you are making to the customer, cause one industry rips people its ok for other industrys some people commit crime but it doesn`t mean it`s ok for others to. And don`t take this personal . Being a timed served gas engineer with over 25 years who would rather repair than replace parts and with well over 40,000 repairs, services and installation jobs done in every aspect of the domestic gas indusrty. It really annoys me with all the newbies jumping on the heating band wagon of making a fast buck at the publics niavitey and expense. Only last week i went to one that customer was told a motorised valve was £300 and £180 to fit it ,all that was needed was a £10 synchron and half hour labour. And that is not a one off. The reason why i think it`s clever to put prices and give information on this site is to give people a rough idea of what it should cost and not be ripped off .There is a very good living to be made in this industry without resorting to shadey practises. As for giving part center prices this is a bit like quoting marks and spencer prices for the exact same thing that can be bought in asda. Yes if you don`t give a sh##e about your customers use the dearest place to buy parts and charge accordingly or the other way is to use a supplier who doesn`t charge the earth for exact same stuff. I know where all my work comes from without a penny eve being spent on advertising of any kind.Also along with all mates we never charge if we don`t fix even if it`s took a couple of hours how many do that.

 

[ChrisR]

You're both still missing the point. Of course Icon... you see parts prices on the invoice but you still have no clue what the garage etc paid. And Namsag you're going off at tangents all over the place because you don't want to answer the questions. There's no jumping on bandwagons involved, it doesn't matter how many jobs you have done, there are no shadey practices going on, nobody is going out of their way to use the dearest supplier, it doesn't matter a jot whether you advertise ot not, and of course most of us don't charge if we can't fix a problem. So why do you introduce all that craap?? It's irrelevant hogwash.

You say you "give people a rough idea of what it should cost" but that is precisely what you are not doing. All you're doing is telling them what you would charge or what would be charged if a fitter took no profit on the part. Which is useless . If you say a part's price is "£100 RRP but you may get a discount", then everyone knows where they are. If someone calls an emergency company from Yellow Pages they sure won't get a discount. It's people like you who fuel the opinion that plumbers rip customers off when they charge the list price for parts, which is what all professional service companies do.

If you want to carry on in an unprofessional way quoting prices dependent on what you reckon you might be able to get parts for that's fine for you, but you are not the arbiter for the industry.

 

[namsag]

Of course i answered your question ,its simple i charge what ever part cost plus delivery no matter how cheap or dear or if i got a bargain . What i won`t do is clearly LIE to customer knowing i can get a part for £50 tell them it`s £100 but may get a discount and then make them feel good by saying i managed to get it for £75. Big companys charge RRP because they have laid out a lot of money o n stock and premises and employees to manage that stock so must get a return on it no arguement there . Was it not you chris who only the other week on this site quoted £40 plus vat for a £4 diaphragm for a valiant turbo max now i can agree on small mark up`s but 1000% on a part is taking the **** . As opposed to feuling debate on rip off merchants what i do is support the honest guys out there . Perhaps the reason why you have worked in several industrys is you eventually get found out. And its you who has not answered the question are you brave enough to tell the customer how much your making on your 1 hour repair job.