Identifying Existing Mods

[cirks]

now that I'm back from hols I've done a bit more investigation...All I can say is that if I find any more spurs I'm going to call myself 'John Wayne'

First thing I've found is that the spur numbered 1 above goes to my son's room where there is a single and a double socket. Better still, this then goes downstairs and powers a double-socket in the garage (for washing m/c, tumbledrier and a chest freezer) THEN outside to the workshop where there a few sockets and a light . Me thinks there might be a bit of rewiring coming up.

Spur number 6 actually goes downstairs and powers the kitchen extractor and a wall mounted spot light!

Spur 7 goes downstairs (down cavity wall toward kitchen) somewhere else! - Anyone feel like guessing what this might power as I can't find anything that doesn't work with it disconnected! Checked water softner, under cupboard lights, sockets in all rooms (I think!).

is probably a good indication that they are in fact 20A boxes. If so, change them.

What makes all this lovely is that I also found that one of the 2 JBs was actually a 15A one! That has now been changed.

if the spurs run multiple sockets then provided they are not running heavy loads just start them from unswiched fused connection units

While I've got floor up etc I assume I should add the spurred sockets in my son's room into the ring main as a preference? If not, is it alright to put the fcu next to the first socket or should it be as close to the JB as possible?

I intend to get the workshop at a minimum off its own ring but what would you suggest as for sorting out the above mess?

 

[dw3101]

I would suggest, forgetting anything that is there to start with an plan adding a ring or two.. workshop ideally on its own.. and sockets potentially powering out side must be rcd protected.

If you cant really smash the house to bits to run cables, can you take the beginning of the spur (more like a radial in this case.. is it 2.5mm t&e?) move this to a new socket then run a new cable to the consumer unit and then a new cable from consumer unit to final socket, assuming all cable is sound and no more JB's.

However Ideally you want to buy a reel or two of 2.5 T&E and run this to each socket on the ring and totally replace the lot, if your not confident to do this then speak to an electrician and he may be happy for you to run the cable..

Also run it through joists and not through notches.. and pulling cable off the side of the reel is asking for a mess, (something that is often over looked!) un-reel it off the reel.

And if your doing more of this I suggest you invest in a set of insulated screwdrivers and a set of test lamps, just to be safe! (not that im not suggesting not isolating the lot, but sometimes thats just not practical, ie Evening work)

David

 

[cirks]

I would suggest, forgetting anything that is there to start with an plan adding a ring or two.. workshop ideally on its own.. and sockets potentially powering out side must be rcd protected.
If you cant really smash the house to bits to run cables,......

I'm drawing up a plan of what the thing will look like eventually and how I might get there without disrupting things too much. Fortunately, I can do pretty much what I like to the floors etc as the carpets will all be replaced at some point and we need to redecorate so even chanelling isn't out of the question.

can you take the beginning of the spur (more like a radial in this case.. is it 2.5mm t&e?) move this to a new socket then run a new cable to the consumer unit and then a new cable from consumer unit to final socket, assuming all cable is sound and no more JB's.

I've got to try to sort out a route back to the CU but it shouldn't be too difficult to do what you suggest. I think I can get to the CU via airing cupboard down to understairs cupboard (where the CU is) from the room with the spur/radial. All the wiring is 2.5 t&e though some is single core some multi-strand.

However Ideally you want to buy a reel or two of 2.5 T&E and run this to each socket on the ring and totally replace the lot, if your not confident to do this then speak to an electrician and he may be happy for you to run the cable..

Already got a reel although might yet have to buy another!!

Also run it through joists and not through notches..

Um, this is something else I need to tidy up. The ring when rewired originally (not by me) has been notched into the joists! As long as I can get to the socket nearest the extended bit I'll rewire and drill the joists.

and pulling cable off the side of the reel is asking for a mess, (something that is often over looked!) un-reel it off the reel.

do you just mean unravel it first rather than trying to unroll whilst passing through the required routing?

And if your doing more of this I suggest you invest in a set of insulated screwdrivers and a set of test lamps, just to be safe! (not that im not suggesting not isolating the lot, but sometimes thats just not practical, ie Evening work)

Fortunately have all of that. With kids and work the evening is the only time I get to do some of it!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

All the wiring is 2.5 t&e though some is single core some multi-strand.

Wot?? - No barbed wire and TV coax? Your predecessor missed a trick there...

Also run it through joists and not through notches..

Um, this is something else I need to tidy up. The ring when rewired originally (not by me) has been notched into the joists! As long as I can get to the socket nearest the extended bit I'll rewire and drill the joists.

If you can't do that, at least fit some protective plates over the top.

and pulling cable off the side of the reel is asking for a mess, (something that is often over looked!) un-reel it off the reel.

do you just mean unravel it first rather than trying to unroll whilst passing through the required routing?

No, he means don't lie the reel on one side and pull the cable so it just spirals off - guaranteed to get kinks and twists. Pull the cable off the reel so that it turns as the cable comes off.

OOI - does anybody know if you can get reasonably priced cable stands/dispensers for reels of T/E? i.e. like this, only designed to take 1 or two heavier, larger reels....

 

[dw3101]

I keep meaning to make one.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

It'd need a pretty big and/or heavy baseplate to avoid tipping over when you're tugging on a the cable....

 

[mildmanneredjanitor]

And what's wrong with a broom handle between two toolboxes! Snob!!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I have many toolboxes.

No two are both close enough in size and small enough to lug around for that to work.

The key thing is for the reel to turn - I guess there's no reason why the axis should be horizontal - vertical would work just as well, so a bit of broomhandle fixed to a base:

might do the trick.

 

[cirks]

Spur 7 goes downstairs (down cavity wall toward kitchen) somewhere else! - Anyone feel like guessing what this might power as I can't find anything that doesn't work with it disconnected! Checked water softner, under cupboard lights, sockets in all rooms (I think!).

Anyone any ideas as to the above? Is there any way I can check what it mght power other than the way I'm going about it (ie disconnecting the spur and see what doesn't work etc)

 

[dw3101]

you could put it back on and use a clamp meter to see if there is any current draw, personally I would disconnect it.. then turn back on and carefully confirm that there is no voltage on the cable and give it a couple of weeks..

Security lights / extractor fan / tv aerial amp / loft lighting (even though you think it goes down!)

immersion heater / shower / shaver socket

rule nothing out.. and ignore the size of cable as it sounds like diy wiring, which is normally anything goes!

 

[cirks]

rule nothing out..

Thanks for the reply.

I can safely rule out the shaver socket as we don't have one!
The loft lighting I can trace but again it comes off another spur!
Extractor was one of the other spurs

The security light is an option that I am considering. Problem is that even with the spur connected the security light doesn't work! I'll take it apart and see if I'm there's any meter reading on the cable over the weekend.

Leaving it disconnected for a couple of weeks (or even days) is the other option......If I do that it's bound to be for something critical which will be ruined by not having any power

 

[securespark]

Yeah if you leave if off for a couple of weeks you're bound to miss whatever it feeds.

Alternatively trace it if you can, you may find it snipped off below decks....

 

[cirks]

Ok, I've found what it feeds. I feel a bit stupid now., Having said that I checked all the sockets I've discovered that it actually feeds one of the double sockets in the kitchen! I had checked all the others except this one - the others are all on the ring. Oh well.

Anyway, having done yet more investigation over the weekend, I checked the two sockets in my son's room only to discover that they each only had one cable to them. This threw me a bit as I knew the room was being fed by a spur from the study. So, I lifted the floor boards only to discover that the spur from the study goes to a JB with 3 spurs running off it!! One to each of the sockets and the third downstairs to the garage and workshop. Since the study and my son's rooms are not on the same level and there is an 8inch thick (ex exterior) wall between them I'm getting a quote for a complete rewire. There seems to be just too many 'botches' done here for me to want to put it all right. I think I'll leave it to the professionals........ Thanks for all your help.

..meant to say that the JB I found was a 10-15A one
also, one of the sockets had all the insulation/strucxture broken away!

 

[Damocles]

just goes to show what you can get by with.

There is a difference between circuits being designed to be safe under all circumstances and how great a risk there is that they will ever be tested to their limit. Your bog-standard ring supplies more power than is normally needed. Electricians do not go round asking exactly how much power you will need and design accordingly, they just do it pretty much standard.

Even if you have a ring with several multiple spurred spurs connected to it, there is a very good chance it will remain safe. Any spur cable has a rating likely 2/3 the total power available to the ring, so it is still unlikely that it will be overloaded. Most probably some of the total power will be going elsewhere on the ring and not down that spur. The regulations are designed to play safe, but you still have a very good chance of never having a problem even with your set up.

That is not to say you should forget it. But don't panic. Oh, and don't go plugging in every high-power appliance you have got on the end of the spur.

 

[cirks]

Oh, and don't go plugging in every high-power appliance you have got on the end of the spur.

The spurred spur that feeds the garage is the one that bothers me most as it has a washing machine, tumble drier and freezer plus the workshop on the end of it! The three machines are frequently on at the same time as each other too. With the questionnable choice of JBs (I've found two that are 10/15A ones used in the ring) and the multiple spurs I think it prudent of me to get a pro to check the circuit over. I've also got about 20 new double sockets to add to the house so with that amount of extra work (although not necessarily huge amounts more current draw) I'd rather the system was safe.

I agree with most of what you say though. In all walks of life there will always be a balance between guidelines, rules, theory and practicalities etc.