If you were God...

Back to the original post question. If i were god i would say hey I never actually existed so you are going to have to sort things out by yourselves and not in my name.
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Nice answer mdf and maybe that's what god is actually doing , it has been pointed out in this thread that hes done precious little in the past 2000 years. Of course it does turn the question on it's head though. My original question was basically how would god convince those who don't believe that he is real whereas your answer would make the question how would god convince those who still believe that he isn't real.
My own personal take on this is that the "truth" is somewhere between the two arguments like it is in so many other discussions.
I find the idea of a creator god to be pure unbelievable fantasy, but I do also have my doubts about the big bang. I am however, struck by how similiar the two theories are, esentially in both cases the universe appears out of nothing or almost nothing either a god or a singularity.
Now if I agree with the scientific community that there was a big bang that created everything could it not be possible that the idea was "planted" in the human mind millions of years ago by other beings whose appearance was easily that of a god?
 
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My original question was basically how would god convince those who don't believe that he is real

In the same way that I am convinced that this keyboard is real.

The problem with the fruitcake God is that he is supposed to sit outside the laws of physics. If God turned up who could turn water into wine then he would either

1) Be using laws of physics we understand
2) Be using laws of physics we don't yet understand

He would however be using laws of physics, and if he can do it, then (given time) so can we.

It wasn't long ago that turning one metal into another would have been considered a God like miracle. We can do it now, no big deal. Same with bringing people back to life after their heart has stopped beating. No big deal.

It's not miraculous. It's the advancement and application of science. Those of us who are atheists have moved with the times. The fruitcakes have got stuck in the past.
 
1) Be using laws of physics we understand
2) Be using laws of physics we don't yet understand

He would however be using laws of physics, and if he can do it, then (given time) so can we.

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Assuming a creator god they would therefore be his own laws and he could change , adapt or work outside of them as he pleased which is why I preposed something like those floating steel balls that defy all laws of physics.Ok so I know that something like that can be done with super cooled semi conductors but a god should be able to achieve the floating balls without any verifiable methods that we could find or see.
I'm not going to bet on it happening though.
 
Well the standard paradox question is "Can God create a rock that is too heavy for God to pick up". The standard god answer is to rubbish the question
 
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Can God create a rock that is too heavy for God to pick up?

The question is badly posed and indicates ignorance on the part of the questioner as to the meaning of the word 'heavy'. Two such rocks would be required, each so strongly attracted to the other that no (known) force could pull them apart.

Could 'God' create these rocks? :?: :?: :?: Well we could, at least in theory if not in practice. Each 'rock' would consist iron. We would need a lot of iron - three solar masses in fact - but there's plenty of it out there in our corner of the universe and it can be collected with a magnet. :idea: :idea: :idea:

So now the question becomes: "Could we, as mere humans, create something that 'God' couldn't pull apart?" :cool: :cool: :cool: There's one for the theologians to think about. :) :) :)
 
I'm begining to see why people just believe everything the bible tells them , makes life soooo much easier and requires much less of that thinking nonsense
 
Could 'God' create these rocks? Well we could, at least in theory if not in practice. Each 'rock' would consist iron. We would need a lot of iron - three solar masses in fact - but there's plenty of it out there in our corner of the universe and it can be collected with a magnet.

You're talking black hole yeah???
Once it's collapsed there wouldn't be two seperate rocks to pull apart.
 
Now if I agree with the scientific community that there was a big bang that created everything could it not be possible that the idea was "planted" in the human mind millions of years ago by other beings whose appearance was easily that of a god?

Ah, the 'alien-god' theory. I find this just as believable, in fact far more so, than believing in a supernatural being that no-one has ever seen but we are assured exists by theologians.

Everything - miracles, biblical events, etc - can be explained by an advanced civilisation visiting us in the distant past. What they did to advance our civilisation would have seemed like magic/god to our ancestors.
 
Everything - miracles, biblical events, etc - can be explained by an advanced civilisation visiting us in the distant past.

Lies and exageration, that would be my explanation.
 
Just finished watching it fully, and it is frighteningly true, what it doesn't mention is the recent meteor that caused over 1000 injuries in Russia recently, and look at the weather we are facing right now in UK in Spring!
recent hurricane or tornado in Bangladesh killing thousands! wars in many countries, Koreans and Iran at the verge of starting WW3! isn't it all coming to man's greed, possessiveness, and egoistic attitudes. we are forgetting this earth is not our property, we are mere travelers and after spending a short time we depart with absolutely nothing, yet we seem to behave like it is ours forever!

my house today i live in, 37 years ago someone else lived in it, in perhaps another 5 to 10 years or may be even sooner, someone else will be living in it, my house is not my house! I am truly blessed that Lord gave me this place to shelter for my stay on this earth! once I am gone i am gone, who lives in this place decides that lord!
 
True untrue or cloud cuckoo land is all irrelevant.
If man is to live in peace everyone has to drop religion now before its too late. I hate to use a cliche but we need a new world order.
There are people volunteering in war zones and helping homeless people and volunteering for charities. my wife volunteers and has done for the last 12 years helping terminal patients in a hospice. She no longer believes in the Church she was brought up with after she had a car crash and the local priest who normally asks for prayers for congregation members in such occasions deliberately ignored her suffering and refused to Christen our daughter because we were in an appeal process with the local Catholic School of which he was a Governor. He passed the duty off to an underling.
All these volunteers go unrewarded. Least of all financially but most of all in peoples thoughts. We see them when catastrophic events occur but while we have all these events like Comic Relief etc Volunteers are just not sexy - don't make money and are simply taken for granted. the nearest they get to recognition is the Children of the year awards but that is only by proxy. Children are praised for self sacrifice but adults who self sacrifice are taken for granted and ignored.
I am not suggesting we give world power to volunteers what I am saying is these volunteers do not need religion they work due to their own moral convictions and usually or sometimes because they or a family member have suffered.
big organisations like all the usual suspects - save the children - cancer research etc etc have high flying executives driving fancy cars and living in big houses and only a small proportion of money raised actually goes to helping their avowed target group.
It could actually be said that these organisations have a vested interest in a cure for cancer not being found or childrens suffering on a global scale to continue.
I have recently worked in the NHS and I left because of my altruistic principles . The grab for getting money for doing as little as possible for patients is completely and openly palpable.
 
my house today i live in, 37 years ago someone else lived in it, in perhaps another 5 to 10 years or may be even sooner, someone else will be living in it, my house is not my house! I am truly blessed that Lord gave me this place to shelter for my stay on this earth! once I am gone i am gone, who lives in this place decides that lord!



Mike, you have opened my eyes, I never knew your god was a bricklayer!
 
True untrue or cloud cuckoo land is all irrelevant.
If man is to live in peace everyone has to drop religion now before its too late. I hate to use a cliche but we need a new world order.
There are people volunteering in war zones and helping homeless people and volunteering for charities. my wife volunteers and has done for the last 12 years helping terminal patients in a hospice. She no longer believes in the Church she was brought up with after she had a car crash and the local priest who normally asks for prayers for congregation members in such occasions deliberately ignored her suffering and refused to Christen our daughter because we were in an appeal process with the local Catholic School of which he was a Governor. He passed the duty off to an underling.
All these volunteers go unrewarded. Least of all financially but most of all in peoples thoughts. We see them when catastrophic events occur but while we have all these events like Comic Relief etc Volunteers are just not sexy - don't make money and are simply taken for granted. the nearest they get to recognition is the Children of the year awards but that is only by proxy. Children are praised for self sacrifice but adults who self sacrifice are taken for granted and ignored.
I am not suggesting we give world power to volunteers what I am saying is these volunteers do not need religion they work due to their own moral convictions and usually or sometimes because they or a family member have suffered.
big organisations like all the usual suspects - save the children - cancer research etc etc have high flying executives driving fancy cars and living in big houses and only a small proportion of money raised actually goes to helping their avowed target group.
It could actually be said that these organisations have a vested interest in a cure for cancer not being found or childrens suffering on a global scale to continue.
I have recently worked in the NHS and I left because of my altruistic principles . The grab for getting money for doing as little as possible for patients is completely and openly palpable.


Very nice of your wife doing all that good charitable work, sacrificing her time selflessly, i am sure someone somewhere will reward her one day.

TBH with you, I don't believe in any particular religion, or trying to belong to any particular one, I have my own independent mind to choose in what i believe, based on logical reasoning, and with as many facts and possibilities, as far as they are convincing, simply a skeleton of an Ape resembling 99.9% close to a man is not convincing for me, that skeleton may be of man in fact, not an ape! Even as of today, man comes in many different shapes and sizes! some with deep and high skulls, so I don't buy that argument.

I believe that God is nothing other than some kind of supreme divine energy whose many branches or dimensions were responsible for the creation of this or any other universes, out of his shear energy, and then his divine power/energy also created the first of the life, I totally dismiss Darwinism, I don't think man came out of an ape as such, Apes emerging before humans can be explained to God not being fully satisfied with his creation of his early man, we could also say the same for the dinosaurs, God may not have liked what he created thus he destroyed them all and started all over again, in his aim to create a perfect creature that (we may call that early man as an Ape) and so he may have taken the Ape genes back to the drawing board and made more improvements until he was satisfied of his final results, the creation of a perfect man.

Let me ask those who believe in Darwinism, can any scientist create life out of a sterile compound? I doubt it, if a man could even produce a single biological cell from a sterile compound, if he succeeded then it was possibly due to contamination, or in other words stealing the germ cell that God had created, and the scientists wants to proclaim as his work!

Dolly the sheep was not created by scientist, scientist merely borrowed or stole God's blue print and copied it to produce Dolly the sheep.
 
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