Inherent fault with combi boilers?
- Thread starter johnkirk
- Start date
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I'd stand back on his one if I were you John. PTFE has no place here.
Shocking that Which might not be unbiased Who can you trust these days?
:lol And of course they test every boiler scientifically and for a full product life cycle before selecting the elite few to place in their marvellous tomes. FFS the gullibility of some people is astounding.
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Much like the top tips you give out eh?
Personally it is common sense, but also from those in the know that might be put in an awkward position if published here in the open forum.
Whether or not you believe me or PP is irrelevant.
You have to pay Which to have a product reviewed.
Which will not have a scientific method of reviewing and analysing the products nor will they be able to test the products for a life cycle.
Hence their reviews are fundamentally meaningless and aimed at the gullible like your good self.
Personally it is common sense, but also from those in the know that might be put in an awkward position if published here in the open forum.
Whether or not you believe me or PP is irrelevant.
You have to pay Which to have a product reviewed.
Which will not have a scientific method of reviewing and analysing the products nor will they be able to test the products for a life cycle.
Hence their reviews are fundamentally meaningless and aimed at the gullible like your good self.
This is not true.
Dan is only saying it because he has received a cash bribe from a manufacturer who scored badly on laboratory tests and needs to invent an excuse.
You think? Good night John. Maybe some intelligence will return to you in the morning?
Or perhaps you would like to name this manufacturer and give me an indication of the amount involved? My accountant will need to know.
Muppet.
Or perhaps you would like to name this manufacturer and give me an indication of the amount involved? My accountant will need to know.
Muppet.
Personally it is common sense, but also from those in the know that might be put in an awkward position if published here in the open forum.
Whether or not you believe me is irrelevant.
You have to bribe Dan to get him to put fictitious allegations on the web.
Hence his tales are fundamentally meaningless and aimed at the gullible like his good self.
Muppet.
Whether or not you believe me is irrelevant.
You have to bribe Dan to get him to put fictitious allegations on the web.
Hence his tales are fundamentally meaningless and aimed at the gullible like his good self.
Muppet.
i avoid vaillant boilers now. Who would want to fit a boiler whos manufacturer steals your customer away??
Not going to tell us what manufacturer I have been bribed by then John?
You forget I am Vaillant, Worcester, Atag, Viessmann, Intergas AND Glowworm (for what its worth) approved.
Come on...
Dan and PP appear to persist in saying you have to pay Which? to get your product reviewed. When asked why they say this they can't do anything but deflect the question. I don't expect them ever to be able to come up with anything that remotely justifies their claims, however out of curiosity I'm going to do a little investigating myself, starting by contacting Which? regarding their research procedures.
I've resorted to Which? over many years on numerous products, and in general I do attach considerable credibility to their reviews. Too often, however, their findings are based on data that is too limited or incomplete, or their conclusions based on overly weighted anecdotal responses from their own members, which is far too hit and miss!
However, their boiler research is not a one-off, with WB and Vaillant coming out top and neck and neck for 3 consecutive years now, I think.
I really don't understand Dan's and PP's seemingly unfounded distortions regarding underhanded practices by Which?
I've resorted to Which? over many years on numerous products, and in general I do attach considerable credibility to their reviews. Too often, however, their findings are based on data that is too limited or incomplete, or their conclusions based on overly weighted anecdotal responses from their own members, which is far too hit and miss!
However, their boiler research is not a one-off, with WB and Vaillant coming out top and neck and neck for 3 consecutive years now, I think.
I really don't understand Dan's and PP's seemingly unfounded distortions regarding underhanded practices by Which?
I am not necessarily saying they are being underhand.
From my understanding you pay to be reviewed, but feedback comes from Which members.
Hardly scientific. Especially as the last time they were asked was 2011.
It also doesn't give an entirely fair representation as the members are likely to have purchased a product based on a review. So asking the membership for feedback only gives back information from the already limited field. Almost incestuous wouldn't you say?
To be honest, the whys and wherefores of Which magazine are less vexing to me than Mr D's claim that I get bribes from boiler manufacturer's. Well I say vexed... more amused. Guess I am accusing Which? of the same - which maybe John's point?
I dunno, and I'm too hungover to care. Bacon sarny time.
From my understanding you pay to be reviewed, but feedback comes from Which members.
Hardly scientific. Especially as the last time they were asked was 2011.
It also doesn't give an entirely fair representation as the members are likely to have purchased a product based on a review. So asking the membership for feedback only gives back information from the already limited field. Almost incestuous wouldn't you say?
To be honest, the whys and wherefores of Which magazine are less vexing to me than Mr D's claim that I get bribes from boiler manufacturer's. Well I say vexed... more amused. Guess I am accusing Which? of the same - which maybe John's point?
I dunno, and I'm too hungover to care. Bacon sarny time
.Well, Dan, if you are going to persist in making unfounded, unsupported and libellous accusations that a members' organisation which has built its reputation on unbiased and independent testing, refusing advertising, kickbacks, free products or manufacturers' payments, and which carries out extensive product tests in laboratories as well as canvassing user experiences from their thousands of members, and you allege that they give favourable reports because they are paid or bribed, then you surely cannot complain when equivalent allegations are made about you.
Seems I have touched a nerve.
Do they review PTFE?
It canvases its members - who buy products based on its reports. Its
feedback is (as far as I can find). It does not ask the general public.
Hence anything published is going to be skewed.
I have read their website and it says nothing about Lab testing boilers. All they say is they have asked 5K+ of their subscribers.
How many hundreds of thousands of boilers are sold in the UK each year? They might only accept feedback from >5%. But their reliability figures are based on 1706 responses. WTF?!
What knowledge (really) do homeowners have about their boiler's inner workings? Or the true nature of faults. Most people I come across are more concerned with the bottom line. A boiler either works, doesn't work or works poorly.
Hardly a survey likely to give an even handed response. Especially from such a limited data source.
Even IF they receive no money WHATSOEVER from manufacturer's there is no evidence on their website that would make me want to buy a boiler on their say so.
*edit*
To demonstrate the skewed nature of their results. In the reliability figures they give (respondent's boilers by brand), seem to not be incline with true market share. Although I confess my recollection of those figures is a little hazy as I sitting through a tedious presentation from one of the 3rd biggest in the country at the time. Perhaps Alec will remember.
Further... in their little table of most common boiler faults since 2005. There were only 539 replies. Great. Since April 2005, I have repaired more boiler faults than that. Therefore my customer database would be a far more reliable source of figures in that respect, as would thebe records kept my many of the other professionals on this site.
Of which you are not. Are you John? What is your profession. How many boilers have you installed an maintained since April 2005? How many pipe joints have you made in that time also? How many needed PTFE to seal up? Seem to remember you skirting that particular issue a short while ago..
Do they review PTFE?
It canvases its members - who buy products based on its reports. Its
feedback is (as far as I can find). It does not ask the general public.
Hence anything published is going to be skewed.
I have read their website and it says nothing about Lab testing boilers. All they say is they have asked 5K+ of their subscribers.
How many hundreds of thousands of boilers are sold in the UK each year? They might only accept feedback from >5%. But their reliability figures are based on 1706 responses. WTF?!
What knowledge (really) do homeowners have about their boiler's inner workings? Or the true nature of faults. Most people I come across are more concerned with the bottom line. A boiler either works, doesn't work or works poorly.
Hardly a survey likely to give an even handed response. Especially from such a limited data source.
Even IF they receive no money WHATSOEVER from manufacturer's there is no evidence on their website that would make me want to buy a boiler on their say so.
*edit*
To demonstrate the skewed nature of their results. In the reliability figures they give (respondent's boilers by brand), seem to not be incline with true market share. Although I confess my recollection of those figures is a little hazy as I sitting through a tedious presentation from one of the 3rd biggest in the country at the time. Perhaps Alec will remember.
Further... in their little table of most common boiler faults since 2005. There were only 539 replies. Great. Since April 2005, I have repaired more boiler faults than that. Therefore my customer database would be a far more reliable source of figures in that respect, as would thebe records kept my many of the other professionals on this site.
Of which you are not. Are you John? What is your profession. How many boilers have you installed an maintained since April 2005? How many pipe joints have you made in that time also? How many needed PTFE to seal up? Seem to remember you skirting that particular issue a short while ago.
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